The Iraq War - Chapter 5

[Karen]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 5

Are we REALLY fighting over there about oil? Do we really think "we" (our govt.) can fool the voting populace here, and make them/us think we don't really have enough oil here, for ourselves? I ain't buyin it....maybe we lack capacity to refine what we got, but "we got it."

[Karen]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 5

3PM today we hear the prez talk about this. Soon after we get to be spoon-fed what the other side of the aisle wants and needs us to think about it.

I was burning the midnight oil today/last night and around 1 AM I was chatting on Yahoo IM with my daughter's former boyfriend that's in Iraq right now. He of course can't say a lot of things about it while there, but he can let me know that it's going quite well and he's pleased with his job as well as his life. He was very upbeat. Morale with him and his is clearly not down or anything. I was thankful to hear him this way.

[waioli kai]

Country BetrayU.S. ?

Written as ... General Betrayus, General BetrayUS, General BetrayU.S., and or General Betraeus then a ? (a question mark) which mark is meant to conclude a question asked by moveon.org ad* in New York Times ... Petraeus or Betraeus ? is in the context of a question, not a statement.

*prior to General Petraeus' and ambassUSdor Crocker's testimonies in Congress this past week... A question asked, not a statement made as is US right-wing rhetoric currently espousing re: moveon.org 's nyt advertisement

..

[cynsaligia]

soldiers pessimistic & critical of US's iraq policies die because of it

the new york times ran an op-ed piece on august 18th which was authored by seven soldiers in iraq. (you can register for free on the BYT site to read it.) in it, these soldiers said:

In a lawless environment where men with guns rule the streets, engaging in the banalities of life has become a death-defying act. Four years into our occupation, we have failed on every promise, while we have substituted Baath Party tyranny with a tyranny of Islamist, militia and criminal violence. When the primary preoccupation of average Iraqis is when and how they are likely to be killed, we can hardly feel smug as we hand out care packages. As an Iraqi man told us a few days ago with deep resignation, “We need security, not free food.”

In the end, we need to recognize that our presence may have released Iraqis from the grip of a tyrant, but that it has also robbed them of their self-respect. They will soon realize that the best way to regain dignity is to call us what we are — an army of occupation — and force our withdrawal.

Until that happens, it would be prudent for us to increasingly let Iraqis take center stage in all matters, to come up with a nuanced policy in which we assist them from the margins but let them resolve their differences as they see fit. This suggestion is not meant to be defeatist, but rather to highlight our pursuit of incompatible policies to absurd ends without recognizing the incongruities.

they point out that any description of safety really should come from the typical iraqi's point of view--not from an american politician's point of view, as he or she walks through the streets of iraq, surrounded by heavily armed soldiers. viewed from over there, they described what's going on over here as surreal:

Viewed from Iraq at the tail end of a 15-month deployment, the political debate in Washington is indeed surreal. Counterinsurgency is, by definition, a competition between insurgents and counterinsurgents for the control and support of a population. To believe that Americans, with an occupying force that long ago outlived its reluctant welcome, can win over a recalcitrant local population and win this counterinsurgency is far-fetched.

two of the authors (Staff Sgt. Yance Gray and Sgt. Omar Mora) of this critical piece died on september 10th. they were part of the 82nd Airborne Division involved in a truck-rollover.

slate writer fred kaplan points out that during petraus'/petraus's testimony, it would have been good if:

After Petraeus cited claims of improvements in the Iraqi army's performance, some legislator should have recited the seven NCOs' description of the "Janus-faced" Iraqi security forces who are trained by U.S. personnel by day and help insurgents plant bombs that maim those same American soldiers by night.

we should note that not only did gray and mora pass away as a result of their loyal service to us, but a third author, Staff Sgt. Jeremy Murphy, suffered a shot to the head while in a firefight. we should applaud and honor all seven soldiers, not only for their military service, but for their critical yet thoughtful practicing of the freedoms they defend. they remind us at home how we can support the troops even if we do not support the bush administration's policies in iraq.

the conclusion of their piece is bittersweet:

"We need not talk about our morale. As committed soldiers, we will see this mission through."

nyt's announcement of mora's and gray's death is here.

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 5

So the Iraqi's say we can't give them enough guns and ammo to meet their needs and they're going to buy $100 million worth from the Chinese. Makes you feel warm and fuzzy all over, doesn't it? First our troops get shot at by insurgents who have stolen American equipment, and now they have to also dodge Chinese bullets?

Iraq has ordered $100 million worth of light military equipment from China for its police force, contending that the United States was unable to provide the materiel and is too slow to deliver arms shipments, Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said yesterday.

The China deal, not previously made public, has alarmed military analysts who note that Iraq's security forces already are unable to account for more than 190,000 weapons supplied by the United States, many of which are believed to be in the hands of Shiite and Sunni militias, insurgents and other forces seeking to destabilize Iraq and target U.S. troops.

"The problem is that the Iraqi government doesn't have -- as yet -- a clear plan for making sure that weapons are distributed, that they are properly monitored and repeatedly checked," said Rachel Stohl of the Center for Defense Information, an independent think tank. "The end-use monitoring will be left in the hands of a government and military in Iraq that is not yet ready for it. And there's not a way for the U.S. to mandate them to do it if they're not U.S. weapons."

Miulang

[Wai`anaeCrider]

The Last War We Won

Ever since "Political Correctness" has come along we haven't won a war.

In WW 2 we bombed the German and Japanese civilians to hell and we destroyed the countries will to fight.

Not so in Korea, Viet Nam or Iraq.

It's time to turn the Iraq civillian population to ashes just like we did to the Germans and Japanese. Then perhaps they will quit fighting us.

[joshuatree]

Re: The Last War We Won

Ever since "Political Correctness" has come along we haven't won a war.

In WW 2 we bombed the German and Japanese civilians to hell and we destroyed the countries will to fight.

Not so in Korea, Viet Nam or Iraq.

It's time to turn the Iraq civillian population to ashes just like we did to the Germans and Japanese. Then perhaps they will quit fighting us.

Sounds like you're simplifying the issue. Germany and Japan were involved in conventional global domination war. Korea and Vietnam were both civil wars as well as being proxy wars for the major powers. Iraq has become a civil war as well.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The Last War We Won

It's time to turn the Iraq civillian population to ashes just like we did to the Germans and Japanese.

So --- it's okay to slaughter a country's population for ... what reason again? I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Iraq attacked us first, or declared war on us?

[Wai`anaeCrider]

Re: The Last War We Won

So --- it's okay to slaughter a country's population for ... what reason again? I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Iraq attacked us first, or declared war on us?

Nope, you missed the part where they stop supporting those Muslim Nut Cases. Then set up a lasting democracy as did the Germans and the Japanese.

[Miulang]

Re: The Last War We Won

Nope, you missed the part where they stop supporting those Muslim Nut Cases. Then set up a lasting democracy as did the Germans and the Japanese.

By eliminating all Iraqis, you set us up for the biggest fatwa in the history of mankind. And that also gives Iran provocation to attack us directly, instead of indirectly as they are doing in Iraq now, and OPEC to stop supplying us with oil.

You think the Holocaust was bad? Of course, that would also play directly into the hands of our own megalomaniacal President, who's just itching for a reason to attack Iran. A world war unlike any that we have seen thus far will commence and probably result in the destruction of more than one civilization.

Miulang

[woodman]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 5

... you missed the part where they stop supporting those Muslim Nut Cases. Then set up a lasting democracy as did the Germans and the Japanese.

... and all this (back in the mid 1940's) took them, umm, How long?

[1stwahine]

Re: The Iraq War - Chaper 5

Kiana's daddy, my son-in-law comes home today. It's been over fifteen months.


Kiana is a Big Girl now!heheheh

Welcome back home Justin!

Mahalo to your fellow soldiers and to you!

Mom

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chaper 5

Kiana's daddy, my son-in-law comes home today. It's been over fifteen months.


Kiana is a Big Girl now!heheheh

Welcome back home Justin!

Mahalo to your fellow soldiers and to you!

Mom

YIPEE! I'm soooo glad for your ohana that Justin is coming home safe and in one piece. I hope he won't have to go back to Iraq again.

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Re: The Iraq War - Chaper 5

YIPEE! I'm soooo glad for your ohana that Justin is coming home safe and in one piece. I hope he won't have to go back to Iraq again.

Miulang

Tita Miulang, I'm just glad he's home. This was his second deployment ova dea. I'm bracing foa Conrad's third. One back, one going.

We're a Military Ohana!

Lynn

[1stwahine]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 5

Dang! Flight got delayed. One moa day.

Auntie Lynn