SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

[1stwahine]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

Amazing how we always come back to the Crusades, and at that point, timkona always shuts up. Maybe this time will be different.

heheheh. I'll take a shot of that 150 you offered PZ ~ plezzzzzzzzz.

Auntie Lynn

[timkona]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

a buncha heads of state in the West are tryna be like popes, launching "crusades" to destroy ideologies that don't fit ours.

WOW. That is liberal spin at it's finest. You are drinking the Kool-Aid, and think it's a wheat-bran smoothie.

I believe in religious freedom, primarily because I'm not into make-believe, but feel fine with others that are. However, when the commands from your "god" indicate that you should kill ME, and you follow through on it, then that's where I draw the line.

Like somebody said, a generation of Islam is being raised, and trained, to kill. From earliest childhood, these messages of hatred are pounded into them. It's a tragedy that breaks my heart. But it's also a threat that scares me.

For those of you that have kids, when was the last time you taught your 4 year old to dress up in a pretend bomb-vest and pretend to blow up a cafe?

[Miulang]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

For those of you that have kids, when was the last time you taught your 4 year old to dress up in a pretend bomb-vest and pretend to blow up a cafe?

A parent in the US doesn't HAVE to teach his kid to be violent...it's pervasive in our society! Why are we shocked when kids go into schools and shoot down their classmates when we allow them to play videogames which allow them to hone their sharpshooting skills? Or when they can get into movies that depict that kind of violence? Even "good guy" violence (as in when the cops shoot the robbers) is still violence.

When you grow up being exposed to all that, you become desensitized (one might even say it is a form of subliminal brainwashing), so violence isn't something that is abhorrent, but rather acceptable. Does having kids dress up as violent figures at Halloween (like the idjit adult who got busted for wearing an Osama costume and carrying a plastic assault rifle) not count as an acceptance of violence too?

Miulang

[Bard]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

when we allow them to play videogames which allow them to hone their sharpshooting skills? Or when they can get into movies that depict that kind of violence?

I don't wanna particularly touch most of this conversation with a 10' pole, but have you actually shot a gun? Or played a video game that involves them? I've done both, quite extensively as a kid and some as an adult (being from Texas and all), and the two are nothing alike, IMO. You can't hone your sharpshooting skills in a video game. What you might be able to do is learn more about logistics and strategy, which (from what I understand) is what they have these sorts of games for in military training.

Reading that blog link you posted made me really sad. I used to read "Where's Raed" during the initial conflicts, and that was also very sad. Made me really appreciate what I have.

[Miulang]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

I don't wanna particularly touch most of this conversation with a 10' pole, but have you actually shot a gun? Or played a video game that involves them? I've done both, quite extensively as a kid and some as an adult (being from Texas and all), and the two are nothing alike, IMO. You can't hone your sharpshooting skills in a video game. What you might be able to do is learn more about logistics and strategy, which (from what I understand) is what they have these sorts of games for in military training.

Reading that blog link you posted made me really sad. I used to read "Where's Raed" during the initial conflicts, and that was also very sad. Made me really appreciate what I have.

I have shot a rifle (in high school). What those "action" videogames do teach is coordination (quick reflexes) and strategizing. Heck, the US Army even has its own authorized game, which was meant to lure high school aged kids to generate interest in enlisting!

Miulang

P.S. Raed is on a speaking tour right now but here's his post about recent events in Iraq.

[TuNnL]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

...when the commands from your "god" indicate that you should kill ME, and you follow through on it, then that's where I draw the line. Like somebody said, a generation of Islam is being raised, and trained, to kill.

And who cast the first stone, tim? Europeans invented the “holy war.”

...Christians, whose wives remained safely behind, were hard to beat: they knew nothing except fighting, they had no gardens or libraries to defend, and they worked their way forward through alien territory populated by infidels, where the Christian fighters felt they could afford to wreak havoc. All these factors were soon to be replayed in the fighting grounds of the East. Spanish historians have traditionally seen the Reconquista as the molding force in the Castilian character, with its sense that the highest good was to die fighting for the Christian cause of one's country.

[sinjin]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

A parent in the US doesn't HAVE to teach his kid to be violent...it's pervasive in our society! Why are we shocked when kids go into schools and shoot down their classmates when we allow them to play videogames which allow them to hone their sharpshooting skills? Or when they can get into movies that depict that kind of violence? Even "good guy" violence (as in when the cops shoot the robbers) is still violence.

When you grow up being exposed to all that, you become desensitized (one might even say it is a form of subliminal brainwashing), so violence isn't something that is abhorrent, but rather acceptable. Does having kids dress up as violent figures at Halloween (like the idjit adult who got busted for wearing an Osama costume and carrying a plastic assault rifle) not count as an acceptance of violence too?

Miulang

The link between violence in real life with violence in entertainment is not proven. The same movies and video games are available in Europe and Asia. Our society might be even more violent without these things as release. We don't know.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

And who cast the first stone, tim? Europeans invented the “holy war.”

Really, what is the difference between Middle Easterners and Europeans? They hail from the cradle of civilization and have contributed equally to comprise Western culture.

[Miulang]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

The link between violence in real life with violence in entertainment is not proven. The same movies and video games are available in Europe and Asia. Our society might be even more violent without these things as release. We don't know.

I think enough studies have been done to prove that while it may not be the ONLY reason why our children have become more violent over the generations, it certainly is a major component.

Here are a few citations for you: from the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (definitely not a group of charlatans), the American Psychological Association, Psychiatric Times, the National Institute on Media and the Family...ad nauseum.

Miulang

[Bard]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

What those "action" videogames do teach is coordination (quick reflexes) and strategizing.

Goodness gracious, we can't be teaching our children THAT!

[Miulang]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

Goodness gracious, we can't be teaching our children THAT!

I would think, though, that you could teach the same things with Chutes and Ladders or an action racing game rather than Mortal Kombat or Doom!

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

One other interesting thing about the verdict and appeal is that this particular trial was just for an incident that occurred more than 20 years ago and which resulted in the death of only about 148 people. Saddam is scheduled to go on trial for some other massacres which were much more serious than the incident for which he has been convicted. This particular incident and some of the ones for which Saddam and his people could be convicted all occurred when Saddam was still a "friend" of the United States and we were helping him! Only we conveniently turned our heads the other way while this was happening way back in the 1990s.

The worst of Saddam's "crimes against humanity" have yet to be heard. And we wouldn't want to execute the man before we hear about those atrocities that happened while the US government was an ally of Saddam, now would we? According to reports from the foreign press, the ruling on the appeal of this death sentence should be heard sometime in mid-January of next year.

Another interesting footnote on the international front is how little stir the verdict caused among our allies. No high-fiving George by Tony Blair or any other head of state...

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

But what's equally important is how other nations aren't condemning this verdict either. And that includes the war protesters

[Miulang]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

deleted. Duplicate post.

[Miulang]

Re: SADDAM Gets Death Sentence

But what's equally important is how other nations aren't condemning this verdict either. And that includes the war protesters

They kinda were. They wanted Saddam to stand trial and be found guilty, but most of the other nations we count as our friends don't have death penalties, either. (the quote below is from the story linked above).

But symbolic of the split between the United States and many of its traditional allies over the Iraq war, many European nations voiced opposition to the death sentences in the case, including Britain — America's closest ally.

Prime Minister Tony Blair said Monday he opposed the death penalty “whether it's Saddam or anyone else.” But he said the trial “gives us a chance to see again what the past in Iraq was, the brutality, the tyranny, the hundreds of thousands of people he killed, the wars.”

And many Iraqis believe that if Saddam is executed, it will further increase the likelihood that Iraq will end up being divided into 3 parts: a Sunni nation, a Shia nation and a Kurdish nation.

Miulang