Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

This is long overdue great news.

But, it can be appealed it to the Supreme Court, where they stand a very good chance of getting a ruling in the military's favor, just because it would prove an incredibly sticky wicket to allow this proper verdict to stand and set precident.
They also still have two manini charges of Watada speaking to reporters, which I wouldn't be surprised to see continued to an extreme.

I get the feeling this was dragged out for so long just to get a taste of which way the political winds would be blowing, much preferring that McCain would win and continue the abhorant policies of Bush/Cheney, where legalities and rights be damned. But even they can see a soon to be Obama presidency and decided the war was lost.

[Adri]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

I have no basis for this but I think that the military is dragging this out in hopes that it gets dismissed without being tried on the merits. I really doubt the military wants a court case with all the media attention on the legality of the preemptive strike and overthrow of the government in Iraq. The military couldn't just quietly dishonorably discharge Watada because of his statements to the media but I think the military would just want all this to go away. Otherwise, there's no reason I can think of for dragging it out this long.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

That's a differring and meritus take on the matter!

[TuNnL]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

I think that the military is dragging this out in hopes that it gets dismissed without being tried on the merits. I really doubt the military wants a court case with all the media attention on the legality of the preemptive strike and overthrow of the government in Iraq. The military couldn't just quietly dishonorably discharge Watada because of his statements to the media but I think the military would just want all this to go away.

I think you may have something here, Adri. Even Lt. Watada’s original attorney Eric Seitz, who has uncannily called this case from the beginning, seems to agree the military will fold. He’s quoted in the Star-Bulletin saying the Army is “not going to win this” and the two charges being sent back, already fall in the bounds of what military courts consider “protected speech.”

[Nords]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

I have no basis for this but I think that the military is dragging this out in hopes that it gets dismissed without being tried on the merits. I really doubt the military wants a court case with all the media attention on the legality of the preemptive strike and overthrow of the government in Iraq. The military couldn't just quietly dishonorably discharge Watada because of his statements to the media but I think the military would just want all this to go away. Otherwise, there's no reason I can think of for dragging it out this long.

Now that everyone's beaten the crap out of each other (in the courtroom as well as in the press) I think the chain of command will decide that they've adequately defended the system and have had enough. Prosecuting "conduct unbecoming" just makes the military look petty & vindictive. And no lawyer in uniform wants to deal with Eric Seitz.

I suspect that 1LT Watada's had a resignation letter sitting in a desk drawer for quite a few months and is probably submitting it right now. If he keeps his mouth shut and avoids the press then he might have a nice Christmas present.

I've been out of the loop for a few years, but IIRC officers are still dismissed instead of given DDs. (Watada would "voluntarily" resign.) And in today's kinder, gentler military the process of discharging anyone with less than a general discharge would practically require a general court-martial for a major felony. A separation board walking into the boss' office to recommend an other-than-honorable discharge for smoking dope or shoplifting maybe even assault would just be pecked to death in an endless game of second-guessing.

It's been more than a generation with an all-volunteer force (which is a good thing), and the public no longer knows nor cares about the characterization of military service. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's the reality.

[TuNnL]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

I think the chain of command will decide that they've adequately defended the system and have had enough. Prosecuting "conduct unbecoming" just makes the military look petty & vindictive. And no lawyer in uniform wants to deal with Eric Seitz.

I suspect that 1LT Watada's had a resignation letter sitting in a desk drawer for quite a few months and is probably submitting it right now. If he keeps his mouth shut and avoids the press then he might have a nice Christmas present.

Well, obviously, that prediction didn’t come to fruition. But in any case, I think the Army would just as soon toss responsibility of this political hot potato to the feds, at this point. At least, that’s what this latest article seems to imply.

The Army says it is still awaiting a decision from newly appointed U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan, who was sworn in three weeks ago, as to whether it will appeal a federal judge’s decision rendered in October.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

No court-martial for Watada on refusal to deploy (Seattle P-I.com)

First Lt. Ehren Watada will not face a second court-martial for his decision to refuse deployment to Iraq, after a federal appeals court judge allowed the U.S. Army to drop its appeal in the case Wednesday.

[Ron Whitfield]

Superb news!

And about time!

Now the Army needs to allow his overdue release and forget about pressing the minor infractions so he can get on with his life.

Dispite the odds and those who've vilified him endlessly, Watada has made history and will be an anit-war and military hero forever.

Three cheers!

[salmoned]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

Huh? He may be considered an advocate for the rule of law over arbitrary fiat, but hardly an anti-war or military hero. As well, the final determination has not been of any consequence concerning his standing in the public eye. Were he convicted it wouldn't have made him a villain; so the dropping of his case doesn't make him a hero. That he sought/received a public airing of his case might lend some credit and/or blame to himself, as well as the media, however.

Ron, you should temper your enthusiasm with a little reflection on reality. I doubt anyone intends to erect a statue or name a military facility for the Lt (although he just may be recognised with a hand-made plaque on a portable latrine, as a reminder of the mess). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for his taking a stand for what he believed was right. It's just that it would have been better if he had realized that going into government service meant serving under those who believe themselves greater than or equal to the law.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

He was a hero for standing up to his superiors that didn't have the guts to do the standing up to Rummy and BushCo against a BS war in Iraq.

And he sought no public airing of anything.

But a monument in DC would be fitting.

BTW, I didn't know Fiat made the Arbitrary!

[salmoned]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

Hmmm, I could have sworn I heard him speak about his case in front of media cameras and to reporters (which amounts to seeking and feeding media attention) rather than just saying 'no comment' and allowing the case to be tried only within the parameters of the military/legal system. That you fail to see the grand-standing nature of his actions with regard to the media I can only attribute to your over-enthusiastic support of his position.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

You're right, he did speak publicly, early on, and fortunately. That's what the final minor charges are about.

[TuNnL]

Re: Superb news!

Dispite the odds and those who've vilified him endlessly, Watada has made history and will be an anit-war and military hero forever.

I see salmoned has beaten me to the punch to revise your characterization of 1st Lt. Ehren Watada. I prefer to refer to Lt. Watada as an “anti-war symbol” and a national one at that. This is the way most media have referred to him in news accounts.

The problem with the anti-war movement is it’s as fractured as the Hawaiian sovereignty movement in its leadership and direction. At least in the ’60s, you had the flower children, the Black Panthers, the SDS and the radicals. These days, overlapping agendas make it harder call a duck a duck. Time will tell what Lt. Watada’s role (if any) will be on the movement, but regardless, he has clearly made an impact.

Anyhow, I imagine we will be hearing from either Watada’s attorneys or the U.S. Army shortly on what will happen to him now that after three long years, litigation is finally over(?)

[Ron Whitfield]

He's not a 'movement'...

Time will tell what Lt. Watada’s role (if any) will be on the movement,

...he's a (fine) example.

As far as the media are concerned, they've failed miserably for at least a decade in their duties towards the public they should be bending over backwards to serve. So how they respond to this or any other matter is pointless. We wouldn't have our recent sad history's had they been worth a damn.
Oh, by the way, what's Madonna doing today?

[AlohaKine]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

Watada is a fool. As a former service member myself ( honorable discharge at end of service contract ) there are easier ways to get out of the military and sluff off your swore duty.

While shameful, all one has to do is threaten to or fake a suicide attempt. I've seen several people do this. Normally you will not get NJP, they normally just quitely process you out on a general/medical psychological discharge.

Fake being gay and you get a "other then honorible discharge" ( worse than general but better than the bad conduct discharge) .

Less informed sailors think getting busted for drugs is a good way out. That is if you want to go to NJP, get rank taken from you, perhaps spend a little time in confinement, and then get a Bad Conduct Discharge to brag about to future employers.

And then there's Watada. Going for the court martial, going for the dishonorible. Makes the druggie way out look like a smart idea compared to Watada's plan.