Molokai Ranch closing operations

[joshuatree]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

*blink blink*

JT, look at the data again:

They own 1/3 of the island. They employ a mere 1.5% of the residents. Many of those "activists" are the employed families themselves. What were their compromises? Low wages and accepting them while realizing that the company holds title to the isle's throat. Not unionizing, nor "workman comping" the company dry. But doing their jobs and accepting their fate, as long as the MK made their profits and did their end to keep Moloka'i country.

PM, no offense, but this doesn't address my question. What did the activists offer on the table as a compromise? This debate about MR's plan to build 200 homes wasn't done and over in a day, it was a couple years. So I'm just asking a fair question to see how much of the fallout was MR's fault and how much was the activist. Your reference to data can also suggest to me that people could have worked and stayed on the other 2/3 of the island if they didn't like the low wages or working conditions.

[Konaguy]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

There was a letter to the editor in WHT about the Molokai Ranch closure. Below is my rebuttal letter to the editor which I submitted to WHT today.

I was blown away by the arrogant letter editor written by Herb Dayton about the Molokai Ranch closure. I really believe that he has no understanding of the bigger picture here. In my view, the Molokai Ranch debacle is a completely different beast than the other projects he mentioned delayed by obstructionists.

Firstly,a huge difference between the other projects and the Molokai Ranch debacle is the fact the community at large expressed their opposition to developing La'au. Building up to 200 McMansions on that land would've negatively changed Molokai forever.

But it seems people have forgotten the latter facts. Instead the news media blame the residents of Molokai for the closure of Molokai Ranch. When they should be blaming the foreign owners of Molokai Ranch for doing this. In my opinion, what GuocoLeisure Ltd did is akin to a toddler who starts to cry when their toy is taken away. They couldn't get their entitlements due to community opposition.So they unilaterally decided to shut everything down as retribution.

I already know that some people will be calling me a hypocrite based upon my other opinions I've expressed about Hokulia, etc after they read this letter.But quite honestly I really don't care. When I visited Molokai last year with my girlfriend (who is from Molokai), I felt the mana of the land speaking to me. I literally got chicken skin as we were making our approach to Ho'olehua Airport. I would urge Mr. Dayton to visit Molokai to see the island up close and personal. Maybe then he won't be writing such arrogant letters in the future about such a special place in our state.

Aaron Stene
Kailua-Kona

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Actually Molokai Ranch has taken more of that tact of "my way or the highway."

Hmmm, MPI offering to donate 26,000 acres to the Molokai Land Trust and setting aside another 24,950 acres for conservation in exchange for the right to develop some 600 acres is taking a "my way or the highway" approach?

I guess some people are not blinded by emotions as much as they have "selective vision." That is, seeing only what they want to see.

[Konaguy]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

I guess some people are not blinded by emotions as much as they have "selective vision." That is, seeing only what they want to see.

Have you ever visited Molokai ? I visited there last year with my girlfriend (who is originally from there).

My view on that proposal is the fact they were try to bribe the community by donating all that land in exchange for Trojan horsing up to 200 McMansions
at La'au.Which would've negatively and irreversibly changed Molokai forever.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

I've been to Molokai twice.

Listen, I can respect (if not necessarily agree with) anyone taking a "non-negotiable" stance on developing a particular parcel of land, for whatever reason. (i.e. you think its sacred, your girlfriend has sentimental memories, whatever.) But what I don't respect is mischaracterizing someone who happens to stand on the opposite side of the issue.

So fine, you don't want MPI building 200 homes at La'au Point. Period. Why embellish it with dubious claims that MPI is taking a "my way or the highway" stance when they, in fact, made an offer to donate or preserve almost 51,000 acres, which is about 85 times greater than the total land area MPI wants to develop?

Can't we stick to the facts in this discussion? Or is slandering and demonizing your opposition the only way for you to make a point?

[Konaguy]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

I've been to Molokai twice.

Listen, I can respect (if not necessarily agree with) anyone taking a "non-negotiable" stance on developing a particular parcel of land, for whatever reason. (i.e. you think its sacred, your girlfriend has sentimental memories, whatever.) But what I don't respect is mischaracterizing someone who happens to stand on the opposite side of the issue.

So fine, you don't want MPI building 200 homes at La'au Point. Period. Why embellish it with dubious claims that MPI is taking a "my way or the highway" stance when they, in fact, made an offer to donate or preserve almost 51,000 acres, which is about 85 times greater than the total land area MPI wants to develop?

Can't we stick to the facts in this discussion? Or is slandering and demonizing your opposition the only way for you to make a point?

I'll let my letter to the editor I posted above speak for itself.

I will say this though. Yes MPL offered to donate all that land in exchange to develop La'au. But I think the negatives outweighed the positives. Building that many luxury houses would've irreversibly changed Molokai forever.

[joshuatree]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

I'll let my letter to the editor I posted above speak for itself.

I will say this though. Yes MPL offered to donate all that land in exchange to develop La'au. But I think the negatives outweighed the positives. Building that many luxury houses would've irreversibly changed Molokai forever.

But now they are considering parceling out the land in smaller plots for individual sale. Do you think this will provide better results?

[Konaguy]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

But now they are considering parceling out the land in smaller plots for individual sale. Do you think this will provide better results?

I think MPL has been doing that for awhile. It is why they were cash positive last fiscal year by doing these individual land sales. Which I feel
will bring better results. Especially if the residents can buy some of the parcels.

[joshuatree]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

I think MPL has been doing that for awhile. It is why they were cash positive last fiscal year by doing these individual land sales. Which I feel
will bring better results. Especially if the residents can buy some of the parcels.

"Cash positive" didn't necessarily mean MR was profitable. The parent company was cash positive. A quote from your link.

University of Hawaii accounting professor Roger Debreceny said the term "cash positive" suggests cash flows from operating activities, but added that the term is not formally defined in corporate accounting.

I think the current development is a sad backfire of whatever the objectives were. Because if you divvy up the land into individual parcels, whoever owns it will develop some of it at the very least. So now you got development all over instead of 20000+ acres set aside.

[timkona]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Josh makes the killing point in this little spectacle.

Dividing the land up into 100 acre parcels will result in even MORE "McMansions" being built, with even less control given to the activists. And it is very unlikely that any unemployed Molokai residents will be able to afford 100 acres. It is ludicrous, to the point of cruelty, to "hope" that a resident of Molokai will be able to afford that much land. On top of that, you can be certain that the public trust and conservation lands will not happen.

To an activist minded person, all three points are viewed as a victory. Hooray !

[Konaguy]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

http://starbulletin.com/2008/04/06/news/story06.html

Meanwhile, the group Ho'i I Ka Pono, led by the Molokai Community Service Council, said it is trying to raise up to $200 million to try and buy the ranch land.

Karen Holt, executive director of the council, said her group has received a $50 million commitment from alternative energy company UPC Wind and also has received other contributions.

"There are a lot of people trying to figure out a way to help Molokai," Holt said.

"We're not waiting for someone to rescue us. We're trying to rescue ourselves."

[timkona]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Too funny. "trying to rescue 'ourselves'. ".......From a jam we created 'ourselves'. $200 million sounds low. And what about those windmills killing birds and making noise. Activists won't go for that. Neither will the HECO protective Dem legislature. Obstructionism is its' own reward.

What's funny is that IF the residents raise enough money, then the land will never be utilized due to the fact that infighting in the controlling group will lead to intransigence. So then folks still won't have jobs, and the land will lie fallow as it has for years. I betcha MRP won't sell to them either. Just more wishful thinking coming from the left side.

[Random]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Too funny. "trying to rescue 'ourselves'. ".......From a jam we created 'ourselves'. $200 million sounds low. And what about those windmills killing birds and making noise. Activists won't go for that.

Where'd you hear about Walter Ritte opposing a wind farm?

[Konaguy]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Too funny. "trying to rescue 'ourselves'. ".......From a jam we created 'ourselves'. $200 million sounds low. And what about those windmills killing birds and making noise. Activists won't go for that. Neither will the HECO protective Dem legislature. Obstructionism is its' own reward.

News flash Tim, building up to 200 McMansions there is not something that will be sustainable over the long term. With higher gasoline prices and peak oil, it will make projects like these unfeasible.

The writing is on the wall. You can choose to stick your head in the sand or accept the fact that Hawaii will need to diversify its economic base from real estate, construction, the military and tourism. In short, paving over paradise is not acceptable option over the long term.

[timkona]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Wasnt talking about Mr. Ritte opposing wind farms. But wind power has been protested before in many places, often by the very same folks who consider themselves environmentalists. Cognitive Dissonance.

Today on the news I saw the palm trees being cut down at the golf course. Or something like that.

This whole thread is about the erosion of private property rights. Many folks on the left side of the coin just don't like the notion of private property or property rights.

No law against cutting down trees on your property, is there?