Price of Milk

[joshuatree]

Re: Price of Milk

You take megawatts of energy out of the waves, that's got to have some kind of effect. As to what it affects, it probably depends on what directions the swells are going that day. At some time or another, no matter where you deploy it, the island(s) will end up in it's "shadow".

I think you missed my point. Flat surf = no electricity, right? How dependable is wave power?

I'm not against it, I just have some hard questions up front.

You take MW out of the water, yes it will have an effect. But what I'm trying to say is the islands are merely specks in the vast Pacific. One degree of difference going out a few miles will translate into a large swath of ocean. So I think there's plenty of waves for power and for surfing. Let's say positioning these machines to the east or west of Oahu so it only affects waves going though the channels, instead of the waves that would be hitting the North Shore for instance.

As for flat surf, I poorly explained my position. I'm trying to say these machines are designed to absorb power from very little waves, as little as a foot, to large waves. I'm not much of a surfer but I think we get decent waves pretty consistently. How often do we literally get no waves?

Asking hard questions is great, because if the idea can take those questions, then it means it stands a good chance of really being a solution.

Here's the power matrix of the machine. I don't pretend to be an expert on it.

http://www.oceanpd.com/Pelamis/Powermatrixgraph.html

"Ideally the Pelamis would be moored in waters approximately 50-60m in depth (often 5-10km from the shore)."

[Random]

Re: Price of Milk

Encourage solar apps, maybe allow smaller micro cars in the Hawaii market?

Micro cars? Is that a fancy name for a scooter with more than two wheels?

[joshuatree]

Re: Price of Milk

Micro cars? Is that a fancy name for a scooter with more than two wheels?

It can be merely a 4 wheeled scooter but then again, the micro car, Kei car in Japan, has evolved much. Really not a bad concept for Hawaii, especially for work commuting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microvan

[Random]

Re: Price of Milk

It can be merely a 4 wheeled scooter but then again, the micro car, Kei car in Japan, has evolved much. Really not a bad concept for Hawaii, especially for work commuting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microvan

Yeah, but in Hawaii, many consider cars as status symbols more than tools.

That, and we're tainted by the image of little clown cars.

Besides, Japan don't know how to make kanaka-sized micro cars. Only Germany's VW and Britain's Mini.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Price of Milk

I think the big issue of the micro car is the US crashworthyness standards. I'm sure those cars are just fine in Japan where everything is small. A garbage truck there is about the size of a full-sized pickup (if that big).

Over here, I think people would be too nervous driving a little car in traffic when so many have jacked up SUVs.

[joshuatree]

Re: Price of Milk

Yeah, but in Hawaii, many consider cars as status symbols more than tools.

That, and we're tainted by the image of little clown cars.

Besides, Japan don't know how to make kanaka-sized micro cars. Only Germany's VW and Britain's Mini.

Hawaii's no exception, anywhere in the world, cars are status symbols. But in an ever growing trend of two car garages and even more, I think there is plenty of room for a family to have their main car and a work commute car.

This part I completely agree. Sadly, we seem to be stuck with a silly notion of clown cars while the rest of the world moved on.

That's not true. While micro cars in Japan do tend to be very small, they build kanaka-sized micro cars for the appropriate markets. The Toyota Aygo is an example for the European market. Gets a 4 star crash worthy rating from the Euro NCAP. Gets 50+ MPG without having to use fancy hybrid tech.

This site has some older kei cars for import into Canada but if you click through the model lists, there's a few sporty looking micro cars.

http://www.kei-cars.com/index_files/database.htm

I think the big issue of the micro car is the US crashworthyness standards. I'm sure those cars are just fine in Japan where everything is small. A garbage truck there is about the size of a full-sized pickup (if that big).

Over here, I think people would be too nervous driving a little car in traffic when so many have jacked up SUVs.

I think that notion is slowly being changed. The Smart car will soon be available in the US market and it is small. Yet, they've made it meet crashworthyness standards. Maybe it's also time we start to divy up the lanes on our freeways like the way Canadians and Australians do so smaller cars are in a certain segment and larger cars in another.


But going back to price of milk.

http://starbulletin.com/2007/08/05/news/story01.html

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Price of Milk

But going back to price of milk.

Next headline: Milk subsidies drive up biofuel costs?

[Miulang]

Re: Price of Milk

The bad news (that you already know) is that milk prices in Honolulu are the highest in the country. But the good news is that Pacific Dairy, the last local dairy on Oahu, is not going to close down after all, thanks to a new state subsidy for feed costs. So if you want local milk and are willing to pay the price, then milk with the "Island Fresh" marking should still be available. It's also comforting to know that Honolulu school kids get first crack at any locally produced milk when they buy milk in the cafeteria and not the re-pasturized stuff coming from the Mainland.

Legislation that took effect July 1 sets aside $3 million for each of the next two years to subsidize feed costs for dairy and poultry farms. In passing the bill, lawmakers noted that feed costs account for a larger fraction of production costs in Hawaii than elsewhere, and stressed the need for the state to have its own fresh milk and eggs.

Miulang

[Random]

Re: Price of Milk

This part I completely agree. Sadly, we seem to be stuck with a silly notion of clown cars while the rest of the world moved on.

At least we can laugh at them for owning clown cars and being serious and proud of the fact.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Price of Milk

I've ridden in Japanese taxis. They remind me of old Toyota Corollas - not very big on the outside. But the back seat was comfortable for me and I'm 6'.

[DKP]

Re: Price of Milk

Regarding alt. fuel, another source:

http://www.pacificbiodiesel.com/

Made from water and used fry oil and grease. No corn/soybeans needed, just stuff pumped from traps (and some imported from the mainland because not too many eateries to pull from). Runs great in your diesel engine w/no mods. required, and smells much better. Cheaper than than the diesel elsewhere. If no diesel engine or you live on an outer island (not counting Mau'i) you're not sol, you can convert your's (albeit w/possibly some issues), and produce your own without spending much.

There are so many used Mercedes/VW for sale on O'ahu that run great on this stuff

Re: Milk

I also tank the stuff. It keeps me from looking like a lollipop

[acousticlady]

Re: Price of Milk

http://www.oceanpd.com/default.html

It is anticipated that future `wave farm' projects would consist of an arrangement of interlinked multi-machines connected to shore by a single subsea cable. A typical 30MW installation would occupy a square kilometre of ocean and provide sufficient electricity for 20,000 homes. Twenty of these farms could power a city such as Edinburgh.

Wow, can't believe I missed this discussion. I was back reading and came across it. I was away for a few days. Right now I have to go somewhere so I'll have to get back to it later tonight. This one is right up my alley. If not for anything else, what an excellent example for my students. I'm always looking for "real world" applications to the theory. By tomorrow, I'll have the math done!

[Random]

Re: Price of Milk

I also tank the stuff. It keeps me from looking like a lollipop

???

A big head supported by a thin frame?

As for biodiesel, I dunno. If we're going to be driving Japanese micro cars, we'll have to lay off on fried food. That could mean a shortage of used cooking oil. Better to utilize what agricultural resources we're normally known for: sugar cane and pineapple.

[DKP]

Re: Price of Milk

???

A big head supported by a thin frame?

Yup. I've an uber high metabolism. Good in some ways...bad because to keep on pounds I usually have to buy protein powder...expensive sometimes

As for biodiesel, I dunno. If we're going to be driving Japanese micro cars, we'll have to lay off on fried food. That could mean a shortage of used cooking oil. Better to utilize what agricultural resources we're normally known for: sugar cane and pineapple.

Might as well use the grease and oil that otherwise ends up in the landfills (the guy who started the company started it because of that.) The grease trap pumping companies take it to the Sand Island plant instead.

Plus, there are already a crapload of used, affordable, and efficient diesel vehicles around for sale (I'm talking certain 90's models here)...might as well reuse those as well.

Sugar cane and pineapple are ok to use...but cane takes alot of water, land (which could be used for other types of crops), and power (in the conversion process.)

Biodiesel uses gravity, time, and not as much water. I agree, we can't all use it...but it is ONE alternative...one that is underutilized.

In certain cities, this stuff is used in their bus systems (including school buses.)

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Price of Milk

Biodiesel uses gravity, time, and not as much water. I agree, we can't all use it...but it is ONE alternative...one that is underutilized.

Is it still underutilized? I thought I'd heard a report that there were more takers then used oil.