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  • #31
    Re: You TV?

    Originally posted by scrivener View Post
    If the sound or images of the TV show are picked up, it is a rebroadcast, and probably illegal. Businesses who stream live radio through their phone systems ("hold music") are usually guilty of rebroadcasting, too, if they haven't paid someone for a license or gotten some other kind of permission. This didn't prevent Ryan from having the radio turned up in his car!
    Yep, probably so as this was discussed a few years ago in the radio forum.

    However like YouTube, how many companies are going to enforce this? Surely home videos that either use music outright or have it captured in the background have gotten away (so far) with this. For now I don't see anything that would be horribly different with content on Ustream.

    I think the RIAA and MPAA are too busy busting the P2P people before they go after people who place or capture a piece of music on their video.

    Is the person streaming in a shopping mall where the background music is captured a criminal? What about the parent recording their kids singing in with a TV show or a music program? Certainly the firm streaming KUMU FM on their phone is guilty...and the little mom and pop store playing music on their radio.

    Singing "Happy Birthday to You" and streaming it makes every birthday celebrant a criminal.

    Like podcasting, all commercial music content is off limits. What a sad world where commercial music is prevalent just about everywhere and you stand a chance of being a criminal because of the big media companies.
    I'm still here. Are you?

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    • #32
      Re: You TV?

      Originally posted by scrivener
      This didn't prevent Ryan from having the radio turned up in his car!
      I'm very cognizant of these concerns, and am already regretting the playful moments when I did, indeed, tune into KHPR, KIPO, and KINE (as well as a Kauai station?) at random points during these live broadcasts. I was being rebellious, but at least I knew I shouldn't be doing what I was doing.

      So, just in case I ever want music on another "live drive," I've already made a CD containing music by people from whom I've already secured permission to use (podcasting is different from streaming, true, but I feel comfortable here)... or that at least have more appropriate or Creative Commons licensing.

      But as it turns out, music is distracting when you're trying to have a conversation with people. It's hard enough to hear over wind, road, or crowd noise. So the best "background music" for live, mobile video might be none at all, anyway.
      Originally posted by mel
      They probably won't let you in. Also how clunky are these set-ups?
      As to the "clunkiness" of these setups... keep in mind, my setup is as klunky as they come. An open laptop, an external camera, a USB modem hanging off the side, wires everywhere... It's ridiculous.

      But the more common model adopted by the geeks wandering around on Ustream today is a hat mounted camera (with the laptop closed and tucked neatly away in a backpack), or streaming directly from a mobile handheld device (like a Nokia N95). That's a lot less conspicuous. You could then move into "lipstick camera" or "glasses camera" territory if you wanted to be really sneaky.

      Getting this stuff through airport security would be a challenge (although you never know), true, but it's already inconspicuous enough for day-to-day people and places. That's what's exciting... and frightening at the same time.
      Originally posted by mel
      I just hope people who are doing this are mindful of other people in the area who may not want to be photographed, much less videotaped and streamed live.
      I plan to be as courteous as possible, and certainly not point the camera anyone who doesn't want to be captured. There's a geek meetup on Thursday where the camera's been invited, but will be set up on an adjacent "opt in" table, for example.

      But on the other hand, a public beach, a public street, these are not places you have a "reasonable expectation of privacy." Heck, these are places where private interests, let alone the government, are already observing and recording you. I would probably just not be a jerk and point the camera the other way if you cringe or duck, but not everyone will.
      Last edited by pzarquon; April 23, 2007, 11:24 PM.

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      • #33
        Re: You TV?

        Originally posted by mel View Post
        However like YouTube, how many companies are going to enforce this?

        Is the person streaming in a shopping mall where the background music is captured a criminal? What about the parent recording their kids singing in with a TV show or a music program? Certainly the firm streaming KUMU FM on their phone is guilty...and the little mom and pop store playing music on their radio.

        Singing "Happy Birthday to You" and streaming it makes every birthday celebrant a criminal.
        You're right about probably getting away with it, but let's forget about the legality of it all and consider the rights of the artist. When someone creates art, he or she should have a reasonable expectation to decide for him- or herself how that art is going to be used. If I write a song, for example, I don't want someone using it to sell something I'm morally opposed to, like men's fashion underwear that doesn't have the little door in front. And that should be my right. I don't want people using it in a way that I don't permit.

        Of course there's not a thing wrong (in my opinion), legal or not, with how Ryan probably used whatever he used, but that's got to be up to whoever owns the rights to the music. And THAT is worth trying to live up to, and that's is something I've always respected Ryan for -- whether it's because of a law or because of the belief in artists' rights, at least he leaves it up to the artists.

        Oh, and PS: Lest anyone think I'm on some kind of high horse, I should come clean and say that I take liberties with artists' rights myself, quite frequently. I'm not proud of it.
        But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
        GrouchyTeacher.com

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        • #34
          Re: You TV?

          Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
          As to the "clunkiness" of these setups... keep in mind, my setup is as klunky as they come.

          But the more common model adopted by the geeks wandering around on Ustream today is a hat mounted camera (with the laptop closed and tucked neatly away in a backpack), or streaming directly from a mobile handheld device (like a Nokia N95). That's a lot less conspicuous. You could then move into "lipstick camera" or "glasses camera" territory if you wanted to be really sneaky.
          Yep, when the gear becomes small and less conspicuous is when there will be plenty of concern with this phenomena. Everything from privacy to national security could be at risk. Criminal activity is surely to follow technological success.

          Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
          Getting this stuff through airport security would be a challenge (although you never know), true, but it's already inconspicuous enough for day-to-day people and places. That's what's exciting... and frightening at the same time.
          I agree.

          Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
          I plan to be as courteous as possible, and certainly not point the camera anyone who doesn't want to be captured.

          But on the other hand, a public beach, a public street, these are not places you have a "reasonable expectation of privacy." Heck, these are places where private interests, let alone the government, are already observing and recording you. I would probably just not be a jerk and point the camera the other way if you cringe or duck, but not everyone will.
          Exactly. Some people like you will be courteous, others won't. Being captured in the distant background in a public place is not too bothersome, but being filmed up close, especially when you make an effort to avoid it is troublesome.

          So far most government and institutional surveillance are not shared over the internet in real time with the world. Those surveillance videos that do make it out into the public are those few cases where a crime like a bank robbery takes place and you happen to be there at the same time.

          All of this stuff has shades of "big brother" moving beyond the commonality of institutions... it now makes the individual "big brother".

          But then this is already happening with people who take digital photos and videos and share them on non-streaming sites such as Flickr and YouTube. The streaming sites like Ustream puts this into a new arena.

          Originally posted by scrivener View Post
          You're right about probably getting away with it, but let's forget about the legality of it all and consider the rights of the artist.
          As for music, yes, you are right about the legality. I am sure the remaining members of the Beatles and their estates cringe every time one of their songs show up in a commercial that they may not like. In their case, they sadly don't own the rights to most of their classic songs.

          Still something like filming a parade where a marching band is coming down the street playing "Hawaii Five-0" brings the legal question back to the forefront.

          Complicated times we live in when we have to worry about potential litigation when engaged in otherwise normal day to day activities.
          I'm still here. Are you?

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          • #35
            Re: You TV?

            There was a casual meetup of Web 2.0/startup obsessed geeks in Manoa last night, and of course I set up live streaming video so folks could spy on us. Here's a short clip from the evening starring our very own Christa.

            The rig I'm using is relatively portable, but using a Mac laptop is actually overkill given the limited hardware required and a bit bulky. One of the things we discussed was how easy it would be to slim things down to make a live video stream setup even more portable.

            Justin.TV got the early hype, but by the end of the year, there will be a hundred people doing the exact same thing, "lifecasting" live, all the time. And plenty of them will be more charismatic and interesting than Justin, and make for some compelling viewing. Interesting times!

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            • #36
              Re: You TV?

              but will any of them be any more female than Justin? i don't ask this lecherously; i just wonder why so far there has been so little representation of women in this bizarre activity.
              But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
              GrouchyTeacher.com

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              • #37
                Re: You TV?

                It's a reasonable question, underlying lechery or not. The "iJustine.tv" experiment on Justin.TV proved a success, in my mind, and tells me it can be done.

                Indeed, Justine excelled. She possessed enough charisma to keep viewers entertained and simultaneously energize and light up every room she entered (something Justin does not do), and still caught enough eye candy to draw Justin.TV's usual male-dominated audience. (Some had suspected that a woman in the HatCam would be a big beefcake gawking-fest.) Indeed, sexist or not, Justine with a camera was definitely less intimidating than Justin with a camera insofar as the spontaneous reactions she got from people. It may be personality more than gender, though, that so disarmed those she came in contact with.

                But, for the totally immersive, 24/7 model that Justin.TV is championing (versus the more 'event focused' live streaming that will probably be where most folks like me end up) carries risks. And whether you call it being a sexist or a realist, I think it's a lot easier for a man to show off where he lives, every alley he walks down, every coffee shop he goes to than it would be for a woman. At a nightclub, at a block party, at a conference, I'd imagine the social landscape is pretty equal for everyone. But the more personal details of your everyday life? I regret to say I think men have it easy.

                In other news...

                I've made some upgrades to my setup, and am pretty sure I'm at the brink of Justin.TV's mobile model. Again, I'm not interested in 24/7, but moving around while broadcasting is a compelling idea for me.

                Sometime this weekend, I'm definitely going to be biting the bullet and strapping a small camera to my head, and walking around somewhere. Spam Jam? Another lunch in the park? We'll see, as they say. Depends on my wife's tolerance for public geekery and dorkiness, and how well I've tested my hardware!

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                • #38
                  Re: You TV?

                  The tinkering continues. I've now created "HawaiiUP Live," which is basically a web page that's a mashup of various web tools to achieve the epitome of mobile video geekery.

                  There's the streaming video, a chatbox (but you have to click to trust ol' Philippe), my last Twitter update (one of the main ways to keep tabs on me), a form to send me an SMS message (this one could be a problem eventually) and other ways to contact me, links to video archives, and... the pièce de résistance, a GPS-powered Google map to show location. Eat your heart out, Justin!

                  I've had a lot of fun with this rig the last few days. I met up with some other geeks in downtown on Friday, crashing the FHB cafeteria then touring Oceanit and Hoana Medical's offices on Fort Street. I've gone for lunch-hour walks on Ala Moana beach. Today we took the kids to the park, then to the shopping center for some shave ice. Basically sharing one dork's island experience in a most unique way.

                  I'm still struggling with battery life, and learning other limits... from the physical (elevators buried deep in concrete buildings kill the signal) to the sociological. I have no idea where stuff like this is headed in the long term, and I imagine it won't be all fun and games. So, I'm enjoying things in these heady, early days of random experimentation.

                  Wonder where we'll go tomorrow?

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                  • #39
                    Re: You TV?

                    Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
                    Man. If there was anyone in Hawaii whose life should be broadcast live over the internet, it's Christa's. I mean... how much fun would all this be to watch as it happens?
                    SO nice of you to say that ryan!! you know i would rather be behind to camera where i feel most comfortable tho. i think the idea of being the wear-er would be perfect tho since you are getting everyone/thing else.

                    just from a few days with justin tho i realize that it's NOT an ideal sitch. a lot of people were kind of rude about being filmed. there were a couple of 'fan' situations that actually freaked me out too.

                    bottom line? i'm sticking with photos for now
                    life is ok sometimes

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                    • #40
                      Re: You TV?

                      I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the most prolific photographers are also uncomfortable in front of the camera. I think we all figure out that the best way to not be caught in pictures is by being the one taking them! Of course, from digital cameras to private surveillance to "lifecasting" like this, we're not too far off from a world where you could walk into a room where everyone is recording, photographing, and broadcasting.

                      In some environments, cameras are par for the course. In others, they're unexpected. Justin runs in to the full range of reactions, and I'm sure none are really a surprise. Some people are energized and entranced by the camera, others resent it, and a lot of people just don't know what to make of it.

                      And as you learned, he's making himself a public figure, which comes with a lot of baggage. People will say things to and about him (and people around him, including you!) that they'd never say in a typcal social arrangement. Since you're on screen, they figure you're fair game. It was... surreal lurking in the infamous Justin.TV chatrooms while you were with him.

                      All this is relatively new, and who knows what will be the "usual" when it comes to lifecasting a year from now. I'm enjoying experimenting early, before lawyers ruin all the fun.

                      I've made my new obsession official and set up a separate site for it: HawaiiGeek.TV. There's a rambly explanation, some archives, the start of a schedule (Dean Kamen on Tuesday!), and a FAQ that will have some Qs as soon as they're FA'd. I'm taking the rig to the Filipino Fiesta this afternoon... we'll see how it holds up.

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                      • #41
                        Re: You TV?

                        Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
                        I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the most prolific photographers are also uncomfortable in front of the camera. I think we all figure out that the best way to not be caught in pictures is by being the one taking them! .
                        Exactly. The more the potential for way too many cameras to be in one place, the less I am willing to go to an event or meeting, unless through the course of work or something, I have to be there (usually taking photos myself). It is one thing trying to avoid the still photographers and still another to try and avoid the videographers including the TV news people.

                        Now this "livecasting" or whatever have you is more of a concern, especially as it grows in popularity. It has the potential of turning anyone into a voyeuristic street journalist with no purpose except to broadcast something live. No thanks, but I don't want to be caught in their stream.

                        In this urban society it is getting harder and harder to stay away from prying cameras and lenses.

                        I think in time the situation will get to a point where the lawyers and legislators will get "into the picture" and try to litigate or regulate some if not all of it.
                        I'm still here. Are you?

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                        • #42
                          Ryan featured in the news!

                          Congratulations, Ryan, on this major story in today's Advertiser about your "lifecasting". (Good photos of ya, too!)
                          Too much good stuff to even quote part of it here (including a mention of HawaiiThreads), so you folks need to click on the link.
                          Ho`omaika`i, Ryan!

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                          That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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                          • #43
                            Re: You TV?

                            High 5, Ryan!

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                            • #44
                              Re: You TV?

                              Way to GO Ryan!!

                              Auntie Lynn
                              Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                              Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

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                              • #45
                                Re: You TV?

                                Shoots, Ryan is getting so much publicity these days that I almost stuck this item in the "Celebrity" section of HT!

                                .
                                .

                                That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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