Hawaii's Bottle Bill

[mel]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

I heard the Republicans in the legislature want to modify the bottle bill and give the responsibility to the counties. In the scenario the 1 cent the state collects to manage the program would be dropped. Would you think differently of the bottle bill if that happens ?

No. That is only the House Republicans. Senator Slom is introducing a bill to get rid of the bottle bill and Rick Hamada at KHVH radio is rallying for support of the repeal bill.

The only solution to this tax is to get rid of it completely. There is no compromise in my book.

Of course this being a Democrat and liberal controlled legislature, the odds of the bill passing or even getting a hearing is rather slim.

Unless there is great public outcry against this like how it was for the traffic cams a few years ago.

Of course I suspect none of the liberal majority here will support and rally to support the repeal of this TAX. All I assume will happen is that I will be bashed again.

Thanks for prompting me to this post both here and by personal message. I think you got what you expected.

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[Kalihiboy]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

No. That is only the House Republicans. Senator Slom is introducing a bill to get rid of the bottle bill and Rick Hamada at KHVH radio is rallying for support of the repeal bill.

The only solution to this tax is to get rid of it completely. There is no compromise in my book.

Rarely do I agree with Mel, especially when it comes to taxes, but this bottle bill thing is ridiculous. It was not planned out very well at all. The stores where we buy these bottles from arent supporting it and why should they? How is the state to expect them to suddenly have all this money in their cash register to refund customers? And dont be surprised if people just simply walk into the store get their refund and walk out without purchasing anything. Its a no-win situation for the stores. Get rid of it.

The scant number of refund centers on this island are spread out so far it isnt funny. So the wait in line is long, some people have to wait in line a couple hours and find that there is no more money to be given out.

What a waste of time and money!!

All I see who is making out on this deal are the recycling plants.

This bill was first proposed when Cayetano was governor and I was hoping Lingle would get rid of it, shame on her for not dumping it.

KalihiBoy

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

I'm a supporter of the bottle bill and of recycling in general, but this redemption center business isn't working.

I had a little extra time today during work hours, so I tossed a bag of soda cans in my car and headed for the Isenberg Street redemption site. It was so full of people, there was nowhere for me to park. Undeterred, I took a little extra time and cruised to the Kalihi Shopping Center site. There was plenty of parking there, but all I found was a Reynolds Recycling shipping container sitting there, locked up tight. A custodian informed me that they were "closed today, come back tomorrow".

Sheesh. This is way too inconvenient for a regular working stiff like me. Never mind the deposit; I'm probably just going to drop my cans in the local elementary school's bin, like I always do.

Ted Rall said, "because I'm too lazy to wait in an extra line for the rebate at the grocery store, I pay an extra nickel per soda and give the cans to the homeless. Despite this additional cost, I support bottle deposit laws because I value the environment."

I agree with Ted.

[Konaguy]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

The only solution to this tax is to get rid of it completely. There is no compromise in my book.

Mel,
How can it be a tax when you can redeem your cans at the redemption
for the 5 cents. What is a tax is that 1 cent that you do not get back.
If they allow the counties to manage the program and do away with the
1 cent tax on top of the 5 cents I don't see the problem.

[mel]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

Mel,
How can it be a tax when you can redeem your cans at the redemption
for the 5 cents. What is a tax is that 1 cent that you do not get back.
If they allow the counties to manage the program and do away with the
1 cent tax on top of the 5 cents I don't see the problem.

The entire thing is a tax and a gross inconvenience for many people. The tax part of course comes if you don't return the damn container or just dump it in the city's blue recycling bin or down your apartment's trash chute, which is the easiest and cleanest solution for me.

However I have come up with a better solution for myself. As of September 29, 2004 I gave up drinking soda. So I don't buy any soda, juices, or water that comes in those gawd awful rip off containers... which means everything. I can live without it. And since I never touch a drop of alcoholic beverages, beer and other liquors never figured into my equation.

So simply the beverage and supermarket industry has lost me as a customer on just about 100% of this stuff. Bottled water is not that big of a deal for me in terms of "I gotta have it". I may need to buy a bottle on occasion just to replace the ones I am currently using and write the entire 6 cents off as a sunk cost. I hate it.

I don't like the fact that the state is forcing behavioral change through disencentives such as this TAX. It is a tax because the law mandates that it be charged to EVERYONE who buys a beverage whether they return the containers or not. I HATE IT and will always RESENT everyone, especially politicians in the legislature who voted this into law.

Sadly, you liberals have won on this.

Hawaii has had enough onerous, anti-business laws and taxes that continually drain the pocketbooks of everyone, especially the poor whom the liberal left Democrats who support measures like this profess to try to help. Baloney.

I don't expect most of you to understand this as you are all just blinded by the so called miniscule "environmental benefit" this brings. I am sure I am going to be flamed by the liberal lefters and environmentalists on this board once again. I tried to leave this topic behind Aaron, but you again prompted me to air my views. So here they are.

Take it or leave it.

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[Konaguy]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

I know you wanted to avoid this thread. It is just interesting
to read your thoughts after the bottle bill has started. It hasn't
changed at all your views. But something has stuck out for me
in regards to this situation. If the county can assume the
program and you can easily get your 5 cents back......hmmmm

[mel]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

I am very consistent and focused on my "no new taxes" principle.


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[pzarquon]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

With the nonrefundable cent, this program is definitely a tax. But the question is, I guess, whether it's a "tax" if you could get all your money back... albeit with a bit of hassle. If it were purely the five cents, it makes sense for people to simply make the call themselves -- return the bottles, get back those nickles, or just toss 'em and accept the five cent fee as your penalty for being lazy.

A fully refundable bottle deposit - were we to get it, as proposed in the 'direct to counties' plan - might not technically be a "tax," but insofar as it would still create the same headaches and hassles for merchants and residents, it's certainly a "tax" on patience and effort, even if not easily quantifiable in dollar figures.

All that said, I accept it. I'd much rather my tax money go toward cleaner streets and beaches than brass plaques and vanity press projects, that's for sure.

By the way, an extensive story about the bottle recycling program (including comparisons to other states' programs) by Jeannette Lee went out over the Associated Press wire yesterday, and is being republished by dozens of newspapers and news sites across the country.

[Miulang]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

At least the school kids in Hawai'i are aware that recycling can pay off.
Kahului School kids earned $10,000 for taking first prize in the large school category of the statewide contest. Baldwin High School won $5,000 for coming in second to Kahului School.

Since you have to pay the recycling fee anyway, if you don't want to put up with the current hassle of taking the empties to a local recycling station to get your money back, find out if your local school is having a fund drive where they are collecting and redeeming empties. At least that way, the kids can benefit, and so will Hawai'i's roadsides.

http://www.mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=5101

An interesting aside: the restaurants and bars in town are having issues with the new law, too. For one thing, they're not passing along the cost of the deposit to their customers, and they now have to post guards and secure the containers that hold the recyclables so thieves don't steal them. I think there's going to be a great underground economy in cashing in bottle deposits.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

The Honolulu Advertiser gave some perhaps overdue attention to the burden the "bottle bill" places on local small businesses today:

Bottle law a drain on business
Catherine E. Toth, Honolulu Advertiser, January 19, 2005

He's not complaining about the backlog at redemption centers or their inconvenient hours. It's about storing hundreds of cans and bottles — which can't be smashed or pulverized — at his two restaurants, paying the extra nickel for each bottle — which he doesn't want to pass onto his patrons — and worrying about people stealing his stash of now-valuable junk.

[Miulang]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

Hopefully one of the akamai certified recycling outfits on Oahu will want to emulate Aloha Recycling on Maui, which is setting up free redemption accounts for local organizations so people can give the money from their bottle deposit to a nonprofit organization. There are also some tips at the bottom of this article which might make it a little less of a headache for people to recycle.

Miulang

http://www.mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=5102

[zztype]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

I have an idea to even it up between the state and the consumer: How about we implement a system where all consumers PAY the 6¢ per bottle or can AT THE REDEMPTION CENTER?

When you go to the grocery store, the store issues you a little receipt stating how many canned or bottled items you purchased and how much you owe the state. Then the consumer is expected to go to the redemption center provided by the state, stand in line for 45 minutes, present the receipt and then pay the bottle deposit.

When the consumer wants the deposit back, they gather their empties and drive back to the redemption center and stand in line for 45 minutes, get a paper receipt, then stand in another line to collect their nickel.

How's that sound?

What? Won't work? Why not? If it's good for the goose, it must be good for the gander.

[Miulang]

Re: HI Beverage Fee

Those of you who live near the UH campus can recycle bottles and cans on campus on Sundays and Mondays, according to the following item in the Star Bulletin this morning. It's only a pilot project, but at least some attempts are being made to try to accommodate the needs of some citizens.

Miulang

"Recycling available around UH campus
Students and people who live near the University of Hawaii at Manoa will be able to turn in cans and bottles for cash on campus on Sundays and Mondays starting today through March.
The pilot program will be reviewed after two months to determine whether it should be modified or extended.

The truck will be parked from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. on Sundays at the Music Department parking lot at Dole Street and University Avenue.

On Mondays, the truck will move around campus. From 11 a.m. to noon, it will be at Andrews Amphitheater. From 12:30 to 2:30 p.m. it will go to the Hale Aloha Lehua lower campus dorms. Then from 3 to 4 p.m. it will be at the Zone 6 parking lot adjacent to the Center for Korean Studies."

[mel]

Repeal Hawaii's Beverage Container Tax

Repeal Hawaii's Beverage Container Tax

If you support the repeal of the beverage container program and its onerous fee (6-cent hit per container and only 5 cents returned if you redeem your container), then call members of the Senate's Energy, Environment and International Affairs committee as well as members of the Commerce and Consumer Protection Committee to bring SB 892 up for a public hearing.

Senator Kalani English, chair EIA committee:
Phone 808-587-7225; fax 808-587-7230
From Maui, toll free 984-2400 + 77225
From Molokai and Lanai, toll free 1-800-468-4644 + 77225
E-mail senenglish@Capitol.hawaii.gov

Senator Ron Menor, chair CPH committee:
phone 808-586-6740, 623-7797; fax 808-586-6829
e-mail senmenor@Capitol.hawaii.gov

If you oppose the beverage container tax, ask these senators to place the repeal bill on their calendar for a public hearing.

More info:

SB 892 Bill Status

Text of SB 892


Email all Senators: sens@capitol.hawaii.gov

Email all Representatives: reps@capitol.hawaii.gov


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[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii's Beverage Container Tax

The first results of the new recycling law are in. Officials are disappointed by the low rate of redemption. Consumers are either tossing their cans and bottles in the trash or hoarding them.

Rather than lament about the low redemption rate, the State should be asking itself if removing 6 million cans from the 'opala heap is significant. And then they should still try to make it more convenient for customers to recycle their cans and bottles. Up here, we can either take the aluminum cans to a recycler and get paid by the pound for the aluminum, or we can put it in our recyclable trash to be hauled away (we don't get anything back if we do this). In fact up here, recycling is not an option; it's mandatory, and they can refuse to haul away your garbage if there is recycled material mixed in with the true garbage.

Miulang