Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

I have been gone for a few hours to work and came to a conculsion.
It is not worth it to further express my opinion on this as you will
just shoot my opinion down.

It is because your ultra conservative views really bug the heck out me,
As does the people with ultra liberal views drive me up the wall also.

[kamlost]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

okay okay... got different opinions.. different views.. i agree with Mel on this one though but let's take a break for a

[mel]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

Who are these people? (OT)

[admin]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

Kamlost, is that image from your webpage (Ron Parker at Earlham College)? If not, live linking photos and other files from random sites is bandwidth theft. Please see our notes on "Images in Posts."

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

So we have to be punished with a new tax to force us into compliance? That is a sad state of affairs.

Well, yes. It is a sad state of affairs when people don't exercise self-restraint and take advantage of the kindness of others. But that's the way people are, and that's why we have laws in the first place. Or are you of the viewpoint that all government and all laws are evil, and that we should simply leave people alone and they'll do the Right Thing?

What's next? Forced compliance to recycle computer monitors and parts upon every purchase?

Actually, this is not a bad idea. So long as electronics manufacturers continue to sell products that contain dangerous chemicals (lead, mercury, etc.) there will be a hazard associated with their disposal. Your typical CRT has about 10 pounds of lead in it, and these babies usually end up getting crushed and buried in a landfill. I'm not comforted by the presence of all that toxic lead in the ground. However, I have hope that the advent of cheap LCDs will mean that the use of toxic heavy metals in monitors will be decreasing.

Beverage containers are not the only things littering the roads. I don't throw stuff out of my car onto the roadway. Perhaps a cigarette butt tax for all the smokers is next to "encourage" (punish) them from throwing their butts on the road and at the beach.

I wish! Cigarette butts are in my opinion even more unsightly than discarded bottles and cans, but it would be pretty hard to implement a butt-control law. I'd rather that the cigarette companies came up with a filter material that deteriorated quicker, so those damned things wouldn't stick around on the roadsides quite so long.

[pzarquon]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

Cigarette butts are in my opinion even more unsightly than discarded bottles and cans, but it would be pretty hard to implement a butt-control law.

Butt-control law? I like that. I'd draft it and propose it, just to get the phrase on the books!

I say, eliminate cigarette filters altogether, or build them out of super-biodegradable paper or something. Sure, they won't block much in the way of carcinogens, but, then you help the environment on two fronts: less litter, and a shorter period of time for each individual litterer to litter!

Seriously, though, Mel raises a decent point as to our main topic: Hawaii's business climate. After all, the bottle bill will help control litter and counter the carelessness of individual consumers, but the impact on retailers is not insignificant. Like the state's mandatory health insurance laws, while the benefit to society overall is significant, it does make running a company in this state more trouble than it's sometimes worth.

We've got a capitalist state with a sprinkling of socialism. Like Mel, I'd worry about swinging too far toward the "state aid" end of the spectrum, but like Glen, I'm pretty skeptical that a laissez faire, "money, like water, flows naturally where it needs to go" attitude will guide society and individuals to doing the right thing on their own. After all, if it did, we wouldn't need law enforcement at all!

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

Mel raises a decent point as to our main topic: Hawaii's business climate. After all, the bottle bill will help control litter and counter the carelessness of individual consumers, but the impact on retailers is not insignificant. Like the state's mandatory health insurance laws, while the benefit to society overall is significant, it does make running a company in this state more trouble than it's sometimes worth.

Here's a point that I don't quite understand. The bottle bill fee is applied to every beverage-container-selling business in the state, right? And from what I have heard, the businesses say that they will be passing the fee on to the consumer in the form of commensurately higher prices, right? So, if the consumers are really footing the bill, then the businesses aren't losing any money, right? Where is the financial harm to the businesses?

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

businesses aren't losing any money, right? Where is the financial harm to the businesses?

I think it's the inconvenience factor, Glen. Businesses would have to collect and store the bottles/cans until they could be picked up. Any real estate used for non-revenue generating line items like this is considered a cost to the business.

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

OK, back to the original point about the state's lousy business tax climate. I think that focusing on the tax issues overlooks a basic structural problem with Hawaii's economy that makes those high business taxes so painful: the fact we are a low-wage, tourism-based, service economy. That kind of economy doesn't generate much wealth, which means that businesses are struggling because their customers are struggling.

The real question is, what can we do to create more wealth in the state, and keep it in state? Just lowering business taxes all by itself won't do it; I suspect that'll just mean that the same old businesses will make a little more money, and nothing will really change. What we need are different kinds of businesses that can grow new industries.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

OK, back to the original point about the state's lousy business tax climate. I think that focusing on the tax issues overlooks a basic structural problem with Hawaii's economy that makes those high business taxes so painful: the fact we are a low-wage, tourism-based, service economy. That kind of economy doesn't generate much wealth, which means that businesses are struggling because their customers are struggling.

The real question is, what can we do to create more wealth in the state, and keep it in state? Just lowering business taxes all by itself won't do it; I suspect that'll just mean that the same old businesses will make a little more money, and nothing will really change. What we need are different kinds of businesses that can grow new industries.

It's like I said previously, Glen. Get away from courting the big boy corporations from the Mainland and try to foster and promote growth among companies and businesses (including especially your farmers) who have a real stake in the growth/survival of the 'aina, so your economy can become more diversified. You're still one boat strike away from catastrophe as long as you don't do that. Up here on the mainland, we have a whole lot more choices. In Hawai'i unfortunately, you're at the mercy of the shipping industry for lower cost (notice I didn't say low cost goods, because everything is more expensive over there) commodities shipped from the Mainland.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

I have been gone for a few hours to work and came to a conculsion.
It is not worth it to further express my opinion on this as you will
just shoot my opinion down.

But, you were shooting down his opinions, so I fail to see the difference.
Part of debating the issues is presenting your case; if you feel strongly about your case then present your viewpoint intelligently and convince people to change their minds about whatever the issue is. If someone can't do that, then it is presumed they have a weak case to begin with.
As for all this name-calling and finger-pointing, I'd like to think we're all mature enough to discuss the message without 'shooting the messenger'. Let's stick to the issues and not to the personalities.

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

But, you were shooting down his opinions, so I fail to see the difference. Part of debating the issues is presenting your case; if you feel strongly about your case then present your viewpoint intelligently and convince people to change their minds about whatever the issue is. If someone can't do that, then it is presumed they have a weak case to begin with.

I look at this way, I said my peace about that certain subject. If
I continued on I would just cover the same ground over again.
To me it was pointless to continue to try to convince Mel my point view
since he was locked into his views on the subject.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii has poorest business tax climate in US?

I will get back to you folks on this subject. Had a minor medical emergency last night.