Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

[Adri]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

When in reality, historically and in most cultures, love of any kind sexual or otherwise, was not the basis for marriage. Marriage was not, in its origin, religious. It was a civil contract to consolidate resources and power between families. To some extent, it was true that marriages encouraged procreation because that was part of the binding of people into the gathering of resources and power ~ my father and your father are feuding and settle the feud. How do they try to ensure that the feud really stays settled? By having their children marry each other so that they become one family and then would be less likely to attack each other. The marriage would solidify the alliance. Even in Hawaii's history, Hawaii's royalty tried to strengthen the country of Hawaii by trying to arrange a marriage of Princess Kaiulani and Prince Yorihito of Japan thus creating an alliance between the countries (not that Hawaii and Japan were feuding, but they were considering the inter-marriage as a way of strengthening Hawaii). However, it would be erroneous to say that "the good of the children" was the focal point and driving force behind marriage ~ considering that children were traditionally considered "chattel" with no rights or protections of their own until fairly recently.

[sansei]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

hi where my eldest sis live's,she shared with me that since they've passed that same gender's can have marriage's only those who oppose it that they will go to the highest court and try to overturn the judge's ruling is my eldest sis say's the judge shouldnt have overturned what the vote's voted on and since here the 6 couple's are watching it,my eldest sis is right that the judge's ruling is unconstitutional.

Well thank's for your time

[surlygirly]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

...states have, in varying degrees, restricted from marriage couples unlikely to produce children.

Granted, these restrictions are not absolute. A small minority of married couples are infertile. However, excluding sterile couples from marriage, in all but the most obvious cases such as those of blood relatives, would be costly. Few people who are sterile know it, and fertility tests are too expensive and burdensome to mandate.

Wow. I really take offense to this guy's article. I can't have children- had to have an emergency hysterectomy at 25. But to his reasoning, the only reason I wasn't banned from getting married was because it was too difficult to test me. So I had no business getting married? I should have just stayed single ONLY BECAUSE of a fluke? Couldn't have any kind of happiness in my life?

Going with his reasoning about keeping costs down, it would actually be cheaper for civil unions to exist because then one partner could cover the other with benefits and that's one less person that MIGHT be uninsured. This couple could adopt and that would be one less baby being a drain on the welfare system. What a dumba$$. People need to quit being so concerned with what others are doing and concentrate more on their own lives. Are they hurting you? No? Then keep your nose out of it and leave homosexual and other civil unioned couples alone to do their thing.

Sorry- that one just really got to me.

[Kalalau]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

All the points raised by Kolasinski were raised in the prop 8 proponents case in the appeal, and Judge Jackson found them deficient. They merely quoted each others personal beliefs, one stated the source for his 'evidence' was "on the internet". Judge Jackson gave them every opportunity, he bent over backwards to be fair to them, to allow them to present evidence and they didn't; they didn't have any. We like our courts to base decisions on evidence--on reality, in other words, and not personal taste, no matter how sincerely held.

Kolasinski is a doctoral student in financial economics. Where? Liberty University carries a lot less weight than, say, Stanford or UCLA, or some other real institution. And who cares about his opinion? Line up everybody, Adam Kolasinski and his committee of pushy self righteous busy bodies will now judge you and your relationships and their efficiency for the all mighty State. All glory to the state, the individual counts for nothing. Stalin would have approved.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Liberty University

A private fundamentalist/evangelical Baptist university in Virginia, founded by Jerry Falwell.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

People need to quit being so concerned with what others are doing and concentrate more on their own lives. Are they hurting you? No? Then keep your nose out of it and leave homosexual and other civil unioned couples alone to do their thing.

Yeah, it's interesting that the right-wing side of the spectrum, the folks who most complain that government is too invasive into people's lives, are the ones who most want to dictate how others should lead their lives.

[Fritz]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

[QUOTE=sansei;258661] "hi,i wish to share that the childern of parent's who were married traditionally that their grandkid's would be confused and they wouldnt know who truly to call dad and dad or mom and mom or dad and mom and that's the truth."

im not being unkind only sharing the truth.


If they were confused that would give them something to think about. And it is good to think. Perhaps it would make them thoughtful and empathetic to other's situation. If everything had an easy answer and we were all the same ...that wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

Vive le difference'
Isn't that true, as well?

[tutusue]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Sansei...the gay and lesbian couples I personally know, the ones who brought children to their relationship, NOT ONE child was confused as to what to call the other "parent". Each blended family worked it out to the benefit of the kids. And, I'll repeat...NOT ONE child was confused...or upset...or traumatized, for that matter, over what to call the non biological partner.

Now, tell me this...what about straight couple blended families? Your theory seems to dictate that kids would also have the same issue of what to call the step parent. Is that acceptable to you because the family is more traditional? Both of my daughters were confused once they knew my boyfriend and I were getting married. One was not able to express her confusion. The other one came right out and asked what she should call her step-dad, much to the relief of her sister. The 4 of us talked about it and arrived at a decision that was comfortable for both girls. Guess what? They continued to call him by his first name just as they had before we got married. That can also happen in a same sex union. If the couple brings no bio-kids to the relationship and decides to adopt a baby, then the couple will pre-determine what each parent will be called. If they adopt an older child then they can discuss it with the child...just like in a straight couple, step-parent relationship. There is absolutely NO reason for a child to remain confused about this issue. Your hypothesis is NOT the truth that I have witnessed. I'll also add that the G&L couples I'm referring to had wonderful, loving, long term relationships and were very mindful of the issues that could possibly crop up within their non-traditional families. For dysfunctional people entering into dysfunctional relationships, yes, the kids could suffer...but that's not limited to same sex couples. Quite the contrary.

It's fine if you want to disapprove of same sex civil unions, Sansei. But please disapprove for a legitimate reason.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

In the past marriage was limited to the elite and nobility. Marriage was a form of a treaty between ruling houses and nations, a way to solidify fealty between the two ruling houses. The lower classes were not allowed the rights of marriage because the nobility didn't want them to make bonds between families for fear of the serfs attempting to rise above their stations.

http://www.google.com/#q=history+of+...620942826c2927

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbs=tl:...620942826c2927




Some interesting things about the history of marriage:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...rriage-history



And just 'cause...history of marriage in Japan:

http://www.suite101.com/content/the-...-japan-a212185

[sansei]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

hi in response to tutusue,

i respect your opinion only from what i hear that the childern of same gender marriage's,if they do have childern,they would be on sharing what to calll their parent's is like mom and mom or dad and dad is it's not like a traditional marriage,when i was brought up in a traditional marriage,i was always taught to say mom and dad and nothing of their first name's and im american japanese. i hope this may help with your thought's?

Well thank's for your time

[Peshkwe]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Sansi, not all laws are good laws, some deserve to be defeated and buried deeply because they take away the rights of people granted by the constitution.

for example:

http://www.facinghistorycampus.org/c...2570360070E6F5

[tutusue]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

hi in response to tutusue,

i respect your opinion only from what i hear that the childern of same gender marriage's,if they do have childern,they would be on sharing what to calll their parent's is like mom and mom or dad and dad is it's not like a traditional marriage,when i was brought up in a traditional marriage,i was always taught to say mom and dad and nothing of their first name's and im american japanese. i hope this may help with your thought's?

Well thank's for your time

It appears you didn't read my post in it's entirety. How do you feel about children in traditional, blended family marriages...meaning living with a step parent? Those children have exactly the same issue about what to call the step parent. Or, are you against straight couples remarrying? Do you personally know any same sex couples who have children? "from what i hear that the childern of same gender marriage's,if they do have childern,they would be on sharing what to calll their parent's is like mom and mom or dad and dad is it's not like a traditional marriage" is not unique to same sex partners who are parents. Once again, it's fine with me if you're against civil unions...just find a legitimate reason.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Good luck with that Sue.

Well thank's for your time.

[tutusue]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

I know, Pesh! I have too much time on my hands this afternoon thanks, in part, to PT yesterday!!!

[Peshkwe]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Ut-ohhhhh....

Sansi's door knockers are the reason prop 8 was overturned. Run in fear! Hide in the back room and be verrwy verrwy quiet....shhhhh....!!!!!!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...dio05_ST_N.htm

Vaughn Walker, the federal judge who struck down Prop 8 this week, boldly said it "was premised on the belief that same-sex couples simply are not as good as opposite-sex couples." He also minced no words with the electorate: "That the majority of California voters supported Proposition 8 is irrelevant."

This is where Jehovah's Witnesses come in. On Page 116 of Judge Walker's ruling, he cites a 1943 Supreme Court case where the high court did a rare reversal of itself, acknowledging a mistake it made in a Jehovah's Witness case three years earlier. What happened between 1940 and 1943 to Jehovah's Witnesses gave Judge Walker in 2010 his most potent precedent to show that voter will does not trump the protection of minority rights.