Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

[Kalalau]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

You've got to be taught

To hate and fear,

You've got to be taught

From year to year,

It's got to be drummed

In your dear little ear

You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid

Of people whose eyes are oddly made,

And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,

You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,

Before you are six or seven or eight,

To hate all the people your relatives hate,

You've got to be carefully taught!

Kind of on point. From "South Pacific" regarding then so unacceptable interracial dating.

[sansei]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

hi,my apologies tutusue,on when once sometime ago,

on the news like the Nbc news that they shared that it same gender marriage would be another name for civil union's which would mean that same gender marriage's would be another name for civil union's so i didnt mean any harm on this.i only posted of what i learned from when once watching the previous Nbc news and it's not local.sorry

well thank's for your time

[anapuni808]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Sansei - you seem to be only concerned about same-sex MARRIAGE. HB444 is not about marriage (in a religious sense). It is about civil LEGAL MATTER. A church or minister has nothing to do with it.

The bill is not just for same-sex couples, it also applies to OPPOSITE SEX couples.

To be so focused on only the same sex marriage issue (which does not apply to HB444) shows that you & everyone else who thinks this way have not done your research and do not understand the issues or the bill. You are coming from an emotional point instead of an intellectual point. and I've realized that there is no point in trying to argue with folks who think this way. I'll leave that to someone who has much more patience than me.

[LikaNui]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Sansei, you should read up on matters regarding the separation of church and state. It's a basic tenet of American society, created by the founders of our country. And for good reason.

[salmoned]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Sansei - you seem to be only concerned about same-sex MARRIAGE. HB444 is not about marriage (in a religious sense). It is about civil LEGAL MATTER. A church or minister has nothing to do with it.

The bill is not just for same-sex couples, it also applies to OPPOSITE SEX couples.

To be so focused on only the same sex marriage issue (which does not apply to HB444) shows that you & everyone else who thinks this way have not done your research and do not understand the issues or the bill. You are coming from an emotional point instead of an intellectual point. and I've realized that there is no point in trying to argue with folks who think this way. I'll leave that to someone who has much more patience than me.

Okay, out with it. Give us the details of what makes a civil union different from a legal marriage. No need to argue when you can inform. I'm all ears and I'm sure others would like to know why we need another way for heterosexual couples to commingle assets (final 't' is optional). [Admittedly, I suspect the difference is similar to the difference between 'creationism' and 'intelligent design.']

Sansei did not mention anything about churches or ministers in his last 2 posts, why the carping on that point? Certainly you don't imagine marriage/civil union vows are only sacred in the church and not the courthouse.

[TuNnL]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Sansei - you seem to be only concerned about same-sex MARRIAGE. HB444 is not about marriage (in a religious sense). It is about civil LEGAL MATTER. A church or minister has nothing to do with it.

The bill is not just for same-sex couples, it also applies to OPPOSITE SEX couples.

To be so focused on only the same sex marriage issue (which does not apply to HB444) shows that you & everyone else who thinks this way have not done your research and do not understand the issues or the bill. You are coming from an emotional point instead of an intellectual point. and I've realized that there is no point in trying to argue with folks who think this way. I'll leave that to someone who has much more patience than me.

Okay, out with it. Give us the details of what makes a civil union different from a legal marriage. No need to argue when you can inform. I'm all ears and I'm sure others would like to know why we need another way for heterosexual couples to commingle assets (final 't' is optional). [Admittedly, I suspect the difference is similar to the difference between 'creationism' and 'intelligent design.']

Sansei did not mention anything about churches or ministers in his last 2 posts, why the carping on that point? Certainly you don't imagine marriage/civil union vows are only sacred in the church and not the courthouse.

I don’t. I suspect anapuni and Kalalau don’t either. They’re just bleeding-heart liberals trying desperately to justify this ill-conceived legislation any way they can. If we subscribe to Likanui’s separation of church and state tenet, then by that logic, the state should butt out and grant marriage benefits to NO ONE — state-sponsored civil union, church-sanctioned marriage, or otherwise. The law as it currently exists, DISCRIMINATES against single people.

[Kalalau]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

I just find the moral outrage over gay marriage, civil unions, etc, a bit much to swallow considering the same people for the most part didn't object to the murder of 2 million Cambodians, a million Vietnamese, and now a million Iraqis murdered so that already obscenely wealthy America could steal Iraq's oil. Or the murder of the native inhabitants of America or Hawai'i, the theft of their land. The moral hypocrisy is beyond words. It reminds me of how during WW2 German housewives who lived downwind from the death camps complained that smoke from the crematoriums spoiled their laundry hanging on clothes lines. Pity. Accomplices to mass murder have no standing to presume to judge the morality of somebody else's marriage.

[turtlegirl]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Wow, Kalalau, exactly! I absolutely agree 100%!

(and don't forget to count Americans who died in these stupid wars -

WW2 -406,000 killed (including 6,000 merchant marine civilians 600,000 Wounded; 5,600 American civilians were killed

Vietnam - 58,148 killed during service. An additional 114 were captured and died in captivity. In the 5 years following the war, the suicide rate of veterans was 1.7 times the non-Veteran population, yielding an estimate of 9,000 suicides as a direct result of the war.

Korea - Killed in Action: 23,615 , Died of Wounds: 2,460 , Died of Other Causes: 2,833 , Captured (Declared Dead): 2,849 , Missing in Action (Declared Dead): 4,817 , Wounded (not mortal): 103,284

Iraq War - it is estimated that American deaths are well over 10,000 to 15,000 ... the Just Foreign Policy report that well over 1.1 million Iraqi's have been killed as a direct result of the US invasion.

Okay. After reading that - who still cares about giving legal rights to gay couples. Let them eat cake! Let people who are hurting no one have their rights! I just don't understand what the big friggin deal is!!! Sanctity of marriage? Boy, howdy, we all have alot more to concern ourselves with lately, now don't we? My friend got married 4 months ago, and already he and his wife hate each other and are divorcing! Sanctity, HA!! Man up, Lingle - just pass it already!

ps - tunnl, separation of church and state is one thing (which is continually abused), but one must still go thru the state to get their marriage license, no matter if they marry in a church, temple, banquet hall, resort, on a beach, or at the county dump for all i care! Marriages unfortunately are under state and church,

[anapuni808]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Sometimes being a "bleeding heart liberal" is an advantage since we usually have facts in hand before we start spouting off - instead of just responding based on emotions.

Does anyone on this thread actually know what a Civil Union is? or how it differs from marriage? what are the legal effects of one vs. the other?

http://www.factcheck.org/what_is_a_civil_union.html

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Sometimes being a "bleeding heart liberal" is an advantage since we usually have facts in hand before we start spouting off - instead of just responding based on emotions.

I would much rather have a bleeding heart than no heart at all.

[salmoned]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

Okay, so the differences (per anapuni808's citation) amount to:

1. Federal Recognition - Civil unions are not recognized.

2. Portability - Some states don't recognize civil unions.

3. Terminology - Marriage and civil union are simply different terms.

How many heterosexual couples will opt for civil union, since it is readily apparent that it amounts to a 'second class' marriage? For that matter, how many homosexual couples will be satisfied with a civil union? Why should we accept bad legislation that relegates SOME comminglers to second class status?

[Note: I am not against equality, I'm against inequality and this bill LEGALIZES inequality. Remember, the current law is equally permissive/restrictive - both heterosexual and homosexual couples can only enter into opposite sex marriages. I might like to commingle my assets with a deserving youth some day, but am restricted as to the sex of that youth.]

[Kaonohi]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

How many heterosexual couples will opt for civil union, since it is readily apparent that it amounts to a 'second class' marriage? For that matter, how many homosexual couples will be satisfied with a civil union? Why should we accept bad legislation that relegates SOME comminglers to second class status?

[Note: I am not against equality, I'm against inequality and this bill LEGALIZES inequality. Remember, the current law is equally permissive/restrictive - both heterosexual and homosexual couples can only enter into opposite sex marriages. I might like to commingle my assets with a deserving youth some day, but am restricted as to the sex of that youth.]

Again your cutting-edge perception homes in on things many of us miss.

The populace gets caught up in what we think we want - pro or con - while the politicians strive to create more laws trying to mollify both sides (so as to ensure re-election?) and end up just making more of a mess and further complicating things.

And we, having gone through the struggles in an attempt to expand equality, settle for 'well, it's better than nothing.'

Good analysis.

K

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

And we, having gone through the struggles in an attempt to expand equality, settle for 'well, it's better than nothing.'

Better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.

[sansei]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

hi,i wouldnt agree to this bill is that if our gov should do what everyone think's she'd do,i'd is even though it's a civil union's bill.that would be the same as saying it's calling it as same gender marriage.

this is why i wouldnt be to happy since it would be saying same gender marriage and not to be as a civil union bill that shouldnt be passed.

well thank's for your time

[sansei]

Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

hi,i agree with our governor that the people should decide in a vote in november or september is this way,it'll be a vote by the local people and it's good for now that our governor veteo'ed it. this would give everyone a chance to vote and not be legal by our governor.

well thank's for your time