Sign waving

[Mattias]

Re: Sign waving

I couldn't resist.

[1stwahine]

Re: Sign waving

I couldn't resist.

heheheh

I like you.

You speak your mind. Das good.

But in this case...no good. ha ha ha

I read your Blog.

Write on.

Lynn

[Mattias]

Re: Sign waving

Imagine how boring it would be if all agreed on things.

[1stwahine]

Re: Sign waving

Imagine how boring it would be if all agreed on things.

Exactly.

Das why I love POLITICS!

Lynn Vasquez-Dela Cerna for LT Governor

(Run Rod Tam Run!

[helen]

Re: Sign waving

Also, what's up with properties having like 4 different signs on them. Take a stand for crying out loud!

It might be a household with 4 voters who support their own candidate. Or they might be flexible enough to say if one of those four get elected they would be happy with the result.

[Ron Whitfield]

Look's like someone has found their own grumble target...

Bwwaaaaaaaaaaaa...you must be Mr. Whitfield's relative.
(grumble, grumble, grumble)
Have a good day sir.
Lynn

...so knock yourself out, no prob, it's always good for a laff.

[tutusue]

Re: Sign waving

Mattias, afaic it would be a hazard for signs to contain anything but the candidates name. Can you imagine drivers slowing down or, worse, not slowing down to read a message on a sign; taking their eyes off the road? I'm completely fine with sign waving and, like turtlegirl, I wave back regardless of who I support.

Now, if name recognition thru sign waving isn't backed up by an informational web site, at the least, or other means of meeting a candidate then shine that candidate on. Or complain to the candidates...directly. We have that freedom. Lucky us.

[Kaonohi]

Sign Waving

Yes.
The purpose of sign-waving is to impress into the minds of the drivers and passengers a name. So that the name will be familiar to them when they go to the polls. And the voters will select a familiar name over an unfamiliar name. Good strategy.

I've lived in lots of places in the world, but in our great Pacific Melting Pot I have found a political system more dependent upon recognition than issues (although issues are NOT ignored, just not as important than elsewhere). I have also seen signs elsewhere, but not to the degree we have here.

It works, to a degree. Sometimes people forget why a name is familiar, however, and even controversial issues from 10-15 years ago can serve a candidate well.

Yes, it is part and parcel of who we are in Hawai`i nei that our candidates campaign on street corners rather than in the debating hall. It also speaks to how the candidates view the constituents - as tabula rasa upon which they can inscribe their names, without making a commitment.

(Remember Mufi's campaign slogan? "Do we need it, can we afford it?" Well we don't, and we can't.)

Sign waving may become a thing of the past if the current trend of law enforcement continues: Several sign-waving groups have been told by police that their practice is dangerous and against the law, and were told to pack it up and go home. I see this as a positive step - perhaps we will move to issue politics rather than popularity contests.

I have nothing against representative Clayton Hee in Kahalu`u, in fact I consider him a friend and neighbor as well as a diligent representative, but I can't help but laugh when the signs along Kahekili say, "Hee, Hee, Hee, Hee, Hee, Hee, Hee, Hee, Hee, Hee, Hee, Hee.

[anapuni808]

Re: Sign waving

With sign waving - a politician only shows off their name - and the voters have to do all the research.

as responsible voters, shouldn't we be doing our own research anyway - into the candidates and the issues?

I don't base my voting decision on who is out waving a sign in my face but I do sincerely feel that if a candidate is willing to stand out in the hot sun, traffic noise & pollution - then I can at least appreciate their effort and look into what they stand for.

As I said before - if a candidate isn't willing to sign-wave, it says a lot to me about their committment to the office to which they hope to be elected. You can buy ads & tv coverage but it takes personal effort & dedication to get out there on that street corner early in the morning, rain or shine or in the afternoon when it gets really hot!

[68-eldo]

Re: Sign waving

For the most part I concur with Mattias. Standing on a city sidewalk and talking to pedestrians is a good way to meet and greet the public, discuss the issues etc., but the Pali Highway is not the place for that and the candidates know that.

I was nearly involved in an accident on the Waipahu off ramp years ago when the car in front of me slowed down to wave. I had to slow down too of course, and I looked in my rear view mirror and saw the driver of the car in back of me looking at the sign wavers and not me. He did not slow down. I honked my horn to wake up the drivers but the only result I got was the sign wavers waved faster. Fortunately the driver behind me realized what was happening and slowed.

The other thing that gripes me is the trash bags with the bumper stickers. Originally volunteers cleaned up the road and the trash bags were left for a day to say “look what we did”. Now they just come out dump the bags along the road, leave them a week before picking them back up.

Where do you get orange trash bags anyway?

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: Sign waving

I waved at a sign, and it didn't wave back. Then, I waved at another sign, and it gave me the finger. Why did he think he was number one?

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Sign waving

I was nearly involved in an accident on the Waipahu off ramp years ago when the car in front of me slowed down to wave. I had to slow down too of course, and I looked in my rear view mirror and saw the driver of the car in back of me looking at the sign wavers and not me. He did not slow down. I honked my horn to wake up the drivers but the only result I got was the sign wavers waved faster. Fortunately the driver behind me realized what was happening and slowed.

IMHO, this is a very weak argument against political sign wavers. All drivers have the responsibility to drive safely and not to get distracted. If someone gets into a fender-bender because they took their eyes off the road, can that driver shift responsibility to a gorgeous hunk/gal they were admiring on the side of the road? Spilled hot coffee that burned their lap? Changing a radio dial just because the station started playing commercials? No???? Then neither can a driver blame a sign waver who is safely off to the side of the road for getting into an accident.

A novelty, I know: the idea of holding drivers accountable for their own mistakes.

Moving on,.... some rather high-brow criticism is being leveled at sign wavers, which I think deserves some response.

I agree with Sue and the others about sign waving allowing candidates (especially newcomers with limited funds and resources) with a way to publicize their campaigns. Name recognition is the first step towards voters making educated decisions about who to vote for. Without a candidate getting that name recognition, people unaware of the campaign may never check out that person's website.

If Mattias had his way and no sign-waving is allowed, it could lead to voters being less educated about who to vote for, giving an added advantage to entrenched incumbents. I also think that without outdoor signs (whether held by a person or tied to a fence), only candidates with the $$$$ to mail out brochures or purchase newspaper/broadcast ads would be able to effectively publicize themselves. Newcomers who don't have a lot of money to campaign would have a harder time than ever breaking into elective politics. Not a healthy thing for a democracy, if you ask me.

Mattias would rather have more political debates? Great idea,.... but that's only viable for major political races or in special elections, when only one race is taking place. In a normal election cycle, there's just too many races going on for debates to take place between everyone. Sure, there may be one for an office like the governor or mayor. But you're not going to be able to have debates for every single legislative race. Get real here, folks!

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Sign waving

The other thing that gripes me is the trash bags with the bumper stickers. Originally volunteers cleaned up the road and the trash bags were left for a day to say “look what we did”. Now they just come out dump the bags along the road, leave them a week before picking them back up. Where do you get orange trash bags anyway?

It was a friend of mine that first started this worthwhile enterprise in the early 80s, and I did the dirty work. But it was fun getting lot's of support from passersby.
If these folks are using the same method we did, there is an exposure time that has to be beneficial to the paying client, so a single week is not out of line. We usually left them for less than that.
Orange bags? Good question! I want to know as well.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Sign waving

The Advertiser weighs in on this issue. Apparently, complaints similar to the ones in this thread led HPD to start being heavy-handed in clamping down on political sign-waving. Thankfully, the city's corporation counsel is aware of this "inconvenient" thing called first amendment rights and has told the cops to lay off the sign wavers if their activity is not presenting a safety hazard.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...WS01/904180334

Sheesh! If the cops thought it was appropriate to cite sign wavers for standing on medians in the name of safety, then why is it that they never do anything against newspaper carriers who actually walk in the middle of the road? C'mon, Chief Correa! Even if your department's officers are ignorant of constitutional rights, there's no excuse for not understanding the concept of equal enforcement of the law. Or is all that stuff about "Integrity, Respect, and Fairness" on your dept.'s patrol cars just a whole lot of nice-sounding PR fluff?

[Kaonohi]

Even if your department's officers are ignorant of constitutional rights, there's no excuse for not understanding the concept of equal enforcement of the law. Or is all that stuff about "Integrity, Respect, and Fairness" on your dept.'s patrol cars just a whole lot of nice-sounding PR fluff?

One wonders.
I've been personally chided about my comments on training for HPD, with concerns about lack of adequate training in the islands vs. the cost of sending recruits to the mainland. One comment in particular, "we aren't the Feds, you know!"
Still, I believe that adequate training for HPD can be brought here, at a lesser cost, maybe even within budget, and with a payout greatly above the initial cost.
All in all, HPD is well-intentioned, in general, and we know where THAT paved road leads. Line officers opinions to the contrary, I think Chief Boisse Carrera (check my spelling, won't you Frankie?) is the best thing to happen to HPD in the last 20 years.
Sign-waving should no more be exempt from the law than anything else. Intellectually, we know that HPD can't be everywhere, always, and sometimes spotty enforcement is the best they can do - within budget. There ARE priorities, always. Perhaps a public announcement (with clear and fair guidelines) is in order, along the lines of the "clickit-ticket" campaign. (A very successful move, BTW!)
Of course we have a range of officers, from the 'kill them all, God knows his own," to the extreme of those who put individual criminal's rights above almost all, and all those in-between, who seek a balance.
We could have a hot, efficient, elite protective and restrictive force here if the right people and fund$ make the right moves. Protecting EVERYONE, not just Punahou, Kahala, Mariner's Ridge, Haiku Plantations, etc.
The template is there, having been created by LA and other jurisdictions years before.
This is not rocket science, but it IS politics.

If [...] no sign-waving is allowed, it could lead to voters being less educated about who to vote for, giving an added advantage to entrenched incumbents. [...] Newcomers who don't have a lot of money to campaign would have a harder time than ever breaking into elective politics. Not a healthy thing for a democracy, if you ask me.

Frankie, Bob, whomever you are actually or pretending to be today:
I'm not among the recent folks who have put you on "ignore." And I'm not sure why they told ME about it, though I understand why they did it.
Your knowledge and erudition is valuable here and I don't want to miss it. Your spurious attacks on other members (myself included), taints your message - to the point the people are putting you on 'ignore.'
Perhaps your attacks are something beyond your control; the understanding among us will give you space, but wouldn't you rather get your message to everyone?

For instance: alluding that my contact for legal services is worthless (not your words, but your insinuation) because I posted a humorous story is, at the very least irrelevant, and certainly out of line. It could do much harm, and no good.

I have noticed you also attacking other select posters, for whatever reason you may have, and your attacks seem often vicious.

I don't know why you do this, and won't try to guess (not my field), but it seems very much an attempt to 'prove' or 'justify' yourself. This is best done with your factual, historical and detailed commentaries I (and others, probably) treasure.

I suppose you will do whatever you choose to do. I would not be surprised to be 'attacked' and 'demeaned' for my comments here; though I would hope you are beyond that, I won't hold my breath.

Bob, you contribute significantly already, and you have much to contribute here in the future, but IMNSHO you can make a minor adjustment which will increase your value and credibility here immensely.

People don't like to be negated or put down. I reacted to your attack and became embarrassed by my subsequent behaviour. From now on I will respond, or ignore, as appropriate, and council others to do so as well. Such arguments serve none.

So, think about it, and let us know. I already know you stand for what you perceive as truth (you have said as much). I hope you are not so arrogant as to believe you have a monopoly on truth. If that's true, gentleness with those who have other ideas would go farther than your current techniques.

It's in your hands.