How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Hi Craig,
I really don't know, but I think Obama came up with gun ownership came up in this thread. Some of the pro-Second Amendment people think that Obama will try to take that "right" away from us. The debates tend to veer off in different directions. In this case, it went from capital punishment to murders, from murders to guns, and from guns to Obama.

With guns and Obama, that would make some very interesting threads for debates. If someone would open such a thread, I definitely would enter the one on guns, being that I am a gun owner.
Nobu

[TuNnL]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

First of all, I am a gun owner, as I own two handguns, a small bore 22, and a large bore 45, and I have owned as many as 20 guns in the past 30 years. I fired them in competition, so my use was strictly for recreation ... (I am for stricter gun control laws.)

Okay, this only serves to further confuse me. I think the issue was how stricter gun laws would make society safer, which I don’t think you’ve addressed, but we can discuss it in another thread.

As for how Obama fits into this debate, well, the majority of Obama’s cabinet appointees subscribe to a “global governance” agenda. The president’s recent activities — including use of executive priviledge — only bolster suspicion that he will continue accelerate America’s demise in favor of a global totalitarian state. Those of us who subscribe to values that have become rare in recent years — liberty and freedom — stand against the tyranny that Obama and his socialist agenda represent.

[/offtopic]

[matapule]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

As for how Obama fits into this debate, well, the majority of Obama’s cabinet appointees subscribe to a “global governance” agenda. The president’s recent activities — including use of executive priviledge — only bolster suspicion that he will continue accelerate America’s demise in favor of a global totalitarian state. Those of us who subscribe to values that have become rare in recent years — liberty and freedom — stand against the tyranny that Obama and his socialist agenda represent.

Okay, that does it! You have lost all credibility with me. Just another teabagger spammer on HT pushing far right wing conspiracy sites with their nutzy views. In the future, I will treat you as such. You and your group are a threat to America and Americans.

[Kalalau]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

I can't think of any good reason to "hate" President Obama, all he has done has been try very hard to clean up the disaster left behind by bush. Does it really just come down to "yay team!"? Try to think of the policies that effect your life, not just bs thrown out to mislead you. If somebody is appealing to your emotions that is because they don't have anything that will appeal to your thinking, your logic, your higher brain functions. Most advertising is done with appeals to emotion, generating an emotional response, not logical considerations. Thats true whether you are selling hot fast sexy cars or demonizing a fine President--photo shop him to look like Hitler because there aren't any facts that can do that. Get suspicious whenever somebody appeals to your emotions because they are probably trying to fool you, there is probably a reason why they are not talking to the logical part of your brain, and it doesn't show you any respect. It shows contempt. It shows they think of you as an object to be manipulated, just an easy mark to be conned, not an intelligent human being worthy of respect. The same people who wiped out entire pension funds only a few short years ago now want you to hate President Obama. You owe it to yourself to ask why before you swallow the bait again.

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Okay, this only serves to further confuse me. I think the issue was how stricter gun laws would make society safer, which I don’t think you’ve addressed, but we can discuss it in another thread.

As for how Obama fits into this debate, well, the majority of Obama’s cabinet appointees subscribe to a “global governance” agenda. The president’s recent activities — including use of executive priviledge — only bolster suspicion that he will continue accelerate America’s demise in favor of a global totalitarian state. Those of us who subscribe to values that have become rare in recent years — liberty and freedom — stand against the tyranny that Obama and his socialist agenda represent.

[/offtopic]

Hi TuNnl,
Let me explain my position on guns this once, then let's get back to capital punishment.

First of all, when it comes to guns, it is better to have no laws at all than to have laws we do not enforce.
SO, we should first throw out all of the gun laws that we do not enforce, and the onces that are not really enforceable.
Then, we should create enforceable laws, and enforce them. Among them, would be to impose stiffer sentences for crimes committed with guns, and make a murder by gun capital punishment eligible. Lets put a figure on it. Let's say 10 years for using a gun with a crime in addition to the sentence for the actual crime, consecutively with that sentence, and 20 years for using the gun if it is discharged during a crime, consecutively with the sentence with the crime. Of course, the gun laws should be sentences without any consideration of parole.

The trick to gun control, would be to either take the guns away from the irresponsible, or to take the irresponsible away from the guns. This does not mean we should take away all the guns from our gun loving society. Some of us want to keep our guns for protection or recreation.
Nobu

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

I can't think of any good reason to "hate" President Obama, all he has done has been try very hard to clean up the disaster left behind by bush. Does it really just come down to "yay team!"? Try to think of the policies that effect your life, not just bs thrown out to mislead you. If somebody is appealing to your emotions that is because they don't have anything that will appeal to your thinking, your logic, your higher brain functions. Most advertising is done with appeals to emotion, generating an emotional response, not logical considerations. Thats true whether you are selling hot fast sexy cars or demonizing a fine President--photo shop him to look like Hitler because there aren't any facts that can do that. Get suspicious whenever somebody appeals to your emotions because they are probably trying to fool you, there is probably a reason why they are not talking to the logical part of your brain, and it doesn't show you any respect. It shows contempt. It shows they think of you as an object to be manipulated, just an easy mark to be conned, not an intelligent human being worthy of respect. The same people who wiped out entire pension funds only a few short years ago now want you to hate President Obama. You owe it to yourself to ask why before you swallow the bait again.

Some people will listen to Rush Limbaugh and take him seriously, rather than listen to him for entertainment. For a talk radio announcer, the man is very powerful, and he has many followers who buy his ideas, and forget that he had some problems with drugs.

[bjd392]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Coming BACK to the original topic, I'm wondering if any of you are following the current Connecticut trial of Hayes & Komisarjevsky. Do a little research and find out what they did (and have been found guilty of on 16 of 17 counts), and ask if the prosecution's pursuit of the death penalty is warranted, or if you still think it's a bunch of hot air.

Criminals have been put to death for less.

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Going a little off topic, it looks like the State of California is finally going to get going.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...=1&f=130111404

CA has more than 700 people on Death Row, and it looks like they can decrease the amount rapidly.

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Coming BACK to the original topic, I'm wondering if any of you are following the current Connecticut trial of Hayes & Komisarjevsky. Do a little research and find out what they did (and have been found guilty of on 16 of 17 counts), and ask if the prosecution's pursuit of the death penalty is warranted, or if you still think it's a bunch of hot air.

Criminals have been put to death for less.

It looks like they got the goods on those two.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/j...SUGkIvq9O3ud0J

If found guilty, I hope they get the death sentence and are executed quickly. I cannot see anyone sticking up for the lives of that kind of scum.

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

The verdict is in. Guilty. Now I hope they get to pay with their worthless lives.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39520959...rts/?GT1=43001

Snuff em!

[bjd392]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

The unfortunate part about this silly little facade known as 'justice' is that no matter what their final sentencing, it will still be 'more humane' than the fate their victims suffered. If we went to the extremes (those who argue even justice or 'eye-for-an-eye'), then their punishment would entail being tied up, beaten, sexually assaulted, doused in gasoline, and then lit on fire (and whatever else I left out).

But since criminals are protected from the 8th Amendment (sorry victims, you're already screwed), they are entitled to something more humane, like receiving a few shots to put them to sleep before some other chemical puts them to sleep.

Yes, we can chalk one point up for those who say the death penalty is not a deterrent... because as a killer you can do the most unthinkable, atrocious act against a human being, and yet the worst punishment you will be rewarded with is a peaceful injection that allows you to feel no pain and put you to sleep before you die, all while mocking your witnesses with an unremorseful s**t-eating grin. So at what point does a murderer's actions remove himself from the human element and turn into a monster worthy and demanding of execution?

[bjd392]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Going a little off topic, it looks like the State of California is finally going to get going.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...=1&f=130111404

CA has more than 700 people on Death Row, and it looks like they can decrease the amount rapidly.

I wonder if USAJobs has applications for executioner open.

[scrivener]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Do a little research and find out what they did (and have been found guilty of on 16 of 17 counts), and ask if the prosecution's pursuit of the death penalty is warranted, or if you still think it's a bunch of hot air.

For the record ('though I find it insulting that I even have to put it on the record), I don't think people who support or pursue the death penalty are spewing a "bunch of hot air," as you seem to think those of us who are anti-death-penalty are. The question, as has been repeated endlessly, is not whether or not these people deserve to die. The question is whether or not the state should do it. I do not disdain you for your position; please do not disdain me for mine. I think the evidence shows that there are intelligent, reasonable, thinking human beings behind arguments on both sides. Until those of us with strong feelings either way can give each other appropriate credit and respect, we'll never come to agreements on this subject.

Not that we ever will anyway.

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

Actually bjd392,

It really doesn't make any difference as to how a person is executed. The end result is death, and as far as we know, after death, he feels no pain. The benefit is the fact that after his execution, he no longer exists. We don't have to guard him, feed him, or house him.

So he has the benefit of a last meal, (which I feel he should not), gets to say "goodbye" to his loved ones if he has any, (which I feel he should not), and dies a peaceful death, really makes no difference. We don't have to deal with him anymore.

So, stoning to death, firing squad, electric chair, hanging, or lea\thal injection makes no difference. The end result is death.
nobu

[Nobunaga]

Re: How about reinstating capital punishment in Hawaii?

For the record ('though I find it insulting that I even have to put it on the record), I don't think people who support or pursue the death penalty are spewing a "bunch of hot air," as you seem to think those of us who are anti-death-penalty are. The question, as has been repeated endlessly, is not whether or not these people deserve to die. The question is whether or not the state should do it. I do not disdain you for your position; please do not disdain me for mine. I think the evidence shows that there are intelligent, reasonable, thinking human beings behind arguments on both sides. Until those of us with strong feelings either way can give each other appropriate credit and respect, we'll never come to agreements on this subject.

Not that we ever will anyway.

Actaully, I would prefer the state NOT to do it, but to allow the victim's survivors to do it as they please. If they did that, capital punishment would certainly deter more than it does by lethal injection.