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  • #1

    Ban on Toy Guns?

    Bill would ban sale of toy guns to minors
    Should replica guns complete with detachable magazine and laser have gotten kids in trouble at school and with police? Early this school year a Washington Middle School student bought and then brought a toy gun to school. His friend then pointed it at people. Now both boys are suspended for three quarters.
    H.B. 434:
    Sale of toy guns to minors prohibited. (1) It shall be unlawful to sell, attempt to sell, or offer for sale a toy gun to a minor under eighteen years of age [...] Any person who violates this section shall be subject to a fine of not more than $2,000, imprisonment of not more than ninety days, or both."
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  • #2
    Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

    The wording is very broad. Does "toy gun" include water guns? The itty bitty gun that comes with Lego kits?

    The goal to control realistic looking toy guns, right? Why the broad wording? Is this how most bills get started (i.e. broad wording which is narrowed down after many revisions)?
    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
    "    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

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    • #3
      Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

      I agree about the broad guidelines of this bill. Like, any kids' parents could go buy them a toy gun, right? Just as long as its not sold directly to the minor....?
      ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

        Originally posted by MyopicJoe View Post
        The wording is very broad. Does "toy gun" include water guns? The itty bitty gun that comes with Lego kits?
        My guess is the Bill has a separate section that defines what a "toy gun" is, - I have never seen a Bill that didn't have a definitions section. So the information that has been presented here is incomplete and posted in this way to promote "a priori" convictions.

        Best to read the whole Bill before making any presumptious conclusions.
        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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        • #5
          Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

          Originally posted by matapule View Post
          Best to read the whole Bill before making any presumptious conclusions.
          I read what I thought is the complete HB 432 and SB 749. Have you read something extra? Could you link to what you've read?
          "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
          "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
          "          Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

            Note that it is Bill 432.
            http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessio...lls/HB432_.pdf

            No, there is no definition of what a toy gun is, and it does not make it illegal for a minor to have possession of toy gun, just for someone to SELL a minor a toy gun. So, a minor getting one for a present is OK, or getting one from a friend is OK. You can give a minor a toy gun. You can trade a minor for a toy gun. Just don't be someone who sells a minor a toy gun. If so, you can be punished:

            Any person who violates this section shall be subject 2 to a fine of not more than $2,000, imprisonment of not more than 3 ninety days, or both.”
            There is the same bill in the Senate, SB749. It has a hearing on Feb. 15.
            http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessio...lls/SB749_.pdf

            Bye bye buying a squirt gun. Oh, wait, that is bye bye SELLING a squirt gun!
            Last edited by Amati; February 9, 2011, 11:38 AM.
            Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

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            • #7
              Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

              Originally posted by matapule View Post
              Best to read the whole Bill before making any presumptious conclusions.
              Not finding it in the Bills themselves, I thought perhaps the definition would already exist in the HRS, but I had no luck locating "toy gun" either through the search function or poking and prodding around the sections. "toy" showed up in a few places, but not "toy gun".
              "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
              "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
              "              Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

                Originally posted by Amati View Post
                No, there is no definition of what a toy gun is
                Thanks for taking the time to link the PDFs, Amati. Interestingly they have the lawmaker's signature, unlike the HTML version.


                Originally posted by turtlegirl View Post
                Like, any kids' parents could go buy them a toy gun, right? Just as long as its not sold directly to the minor....?
                Originally posted by Amati View Post
                ...it does not make it illegal for a minor to have possession of toy gun, just for someone to SELL a minor a toy gun...

                ...Bye bye buying a squirt gun. Oh, wait, that is bye bye SELLING a squirt gun!
                For now (until they edit the bills) that's what it's starting to look like. I guess it's a sign of how little control adults have over children these days, that laws have to go after businesses and not the children or the parents.

                I remember when neighbors would give you lickin's, if your parents weren't around to do it.
                "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
                "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
                "                Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

                  So this is our tax dollars hard at work?
                  Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                  ~ ~
                  Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                  Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                  Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

                    Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                    So this is our tax dollars hard at work?
                    There's no price too high, to save society from itself!
                    "By concealing your desires, you may trick people into being cruel about the wrong thing." --Steven Aylett, Fain the Sorcerer
                    "You gotta get me to the tall corn." --David Mamet, Spartan
                    "                    Amateurs talk technology, professionals talk conditions." --(unknown)

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

                      so this is what it has come down to. In a time where we have some very serious issues before us such as education, infrastructure, budget etc, our legislatures are spending what must cost into the tens of thousands of dollars an hour of their time considering flawed bills such as these. if it wasnt so maddening it would be comical.
                      the bigger the government the smaller the citizen.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

                        Originally posted by MyopicJoe View Post
                        Thanks for taking the time to link the PDFs, Amati. Interestingly they have the lawmaker's signature, unlike the HTML version.
                        I think we were posting at the same time, so I did not see your link when I wrote.

                        Yes, the PDF shows the signature, and also if it is "B/R" (by request). "By request" indicates that a constituent asked for the bill to be introduced, and the legislator introduced it as a courtesy. In the case of this bill, I did not see "B/R", so the legislator is taking responsibility for thinking it up and introducing it.

                        It is a poorly written bill, it is so broad that even clear plastic neon-yellow-colored squirt guns shaped like a banana would be illegal to sell.

                        I hope the budget is under control, and major crime is under control, and the economy is under control. Because time is being spent on banana-squirt-gun control!
                        Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

                          Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
                          Early this school year a Washington Middle School student bought and then brought a toy gun to school. His friend then pointed it at people.
                          And? What happened? Did anyone panic? Did someone get their eye shot out?

                          Frankly, what I see are a bunch of so-called adults over-reacting. I'm not saying it should be ignored, but trying to create a world where kids can't get themselves into trouble is futile.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

                            It's reached the tipping point were everybody needs to be armed with toy guns, to even the playing field...
                            https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                            • #15
                              Re: Ban on Toy Guns?

                              Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                              It's reached the tipping point were everybody needs to be armed with toy guns, to even the playing field...
                              Post of the Week winner.

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