Tax Hike for Rail?

[mel]

Rail is Not the Answer

Liberals, tax and spenders and rail supporters will hate this link. So what:

Rail is Not the Answer

The main problem is this drastic tax increase is not going to perform as advertised. This is the real issue. Honolulu Mayor Mufi Hannemann was reported to have endorsed the myth yet again yesterday in The Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday July 10, 2005 writing, “In addition to better use of our roads and buses and the creation of a commuter ferry, rail transit is the most promising solution.”

This is an opinion that is not born out by the facts. The fact is every city that has endorsed rail has seen a reduction in the percentage of commuter ridership, often at the expense of the already in-place bus transit systems. Rail is not “the most promising solution.” In cities like Los Angeles poor communities have sued to have bus service restored because rail soaked up all the available funds and commuter bus service was cut as a result. The same thing will happen here.

You can read the entire article by clicking on the title above.

[Kalihiboy]

Re: Tax Hike for Rail?

Checks and Balances Mel, I dont think anyone wants you to go away. We need the right and left opinions as well as those in the middle too.

As you know despite Hawaii having a GOP Governor its still primarily a Democratic state, you know that.

What I dont understand is you dont seem to be happy when Bush wins two terms, Lingle wins, you always seem to find a reason to complain.

Your answer to all of my replies is "none of my business", which is strange coming from a person that likes to give their opinion on many things. You want to play like that, its your choice. I dont find everything you have to say bad, I read your posts, I dont ignore them.

You will find Democrats and Republicans can get along as long as they talk about music or tv shows or sporting events.

Yeah, when Gore & Kerry lost I was pissed off, I was mad when Hirono lost too but I dont go on and keep bitching about the loss. I stay on Lingle and Bush's okole because I want them to do better than they are doing. What is so wrong with that?

I was happy when Clinton was President, I didnt complain too much. But I do alot of complaining about Bush, because I dont like him.

I agree 100% with you on one thing and that the tax levied upon us for this rail rapid transit is not the right way to go about doing this. Alternative options should have been saught like I suggested before tax the tourists who come here from all over the world, they are spending enough money as is coming here, then tax them a bit more, they wont know its happening to them that much.

If I run into Mufi or Lingle I will tell them that getting a rapid transit system is long overdue and I'm glad its coming, BUT I am not happy with this tax system forced upon us either. But until something changes we all have to live with it unless you simply refuse to buy anything Hawaii and as you know that is not good for local businesses and our economy.

I walk nearly 60 miles a week, I dont need no stinkin' car or worthless bus. BUT I will be more than happy to ride this rail system I paid for thru my tax dollars, especially if I need to get to places on time. I sure as hell hope its air conditioned. It should be free in downtown sections too.

There is an old saying, if you Build it, They will come. I guarantee you that people will ride this rail system, toursists and locals alike. If its takes 2% of the cars off the road then we are better off with it than not.

KalihiBoy

[mel]

Re: Tax Hike for Rail?

Checks and Balances Mel, I dont think anyone wants you to go away. We need the right and left opinions as well as those in the middle too.

As I recall it was you who told me to move: "If you dont like Hawaii and the way things are run, then leave!! I'm sure you can live quite affordable in places like Mississippi and Lousiana." - your direct quote.

The right opinion is only needed for the majority left here at Hawaii Threads to slam and continually post their propganda of socialism, stripping of traditional American values, and taking away more of our personal incomes through higher taxes.

As you know despite Hawaii having a GOP Governor its still primarily a Democratic state, you know that.

Because of that Hawaii has been in a 40 year quamire of economic hardship and only recently, just barely is climbing out of the pits. However after the final tax law was enacted through inaction, the tide has once again turned towards Hawaii being a continual tax hell. All hope that I had for a good economy, tax relief for individuals was dashed by the approval of HB 1309 into law (which I believe is now Act 247).

As a card carrying Republican, I am deeply disappointed in our Governor despite most of the good things she done up to now. Many fiscal conservatives, the party faithful, her core base have thrown up their hands in disbelief about her actions regarding the rail tax. You should have been at the community meeting this past Monday night we had at the Hawaii Convention Center. Most of the people there were some of the Governor's core supporters, and all are disappointed, betrayed. We had so much hope that this Governor would have at least kept to the pledge she signed as to not allow new taxes to be created.

And yes, if she did veto the tax bill, more than likely the Democrats would have vetoed it or challenged the veto message mistake in court to get their way, our tax money and your train. But at least if she had vetoed the bill, the burden and blame for this tax increase could have been squarely thrown back on the usual majority Democrats.

What I dont understand is you dont seem to be happy when Bush wins two terms, Lingle wins, you always seem to find a reason to complain.

What gave you that impression that I was not happy that Bush won two terms? Generally I am satisfied with most of the decisions he has made. I have not expressed that much about the Bush administration on this board or anywhere else. I tend to keep away from most of the national debate because the subject matter is too plentiful and far reaching to keep up on a timely basis.

You will find Democrats and Republicans can get along as long as they talk about music or tv shows or sporting events.

Generally, yes. But not always.

Yeah, when Gore & Kerry lost I was pissed off, I was mad when Hirono lost too but I dont go on and keep bitching about the loss. I stay on Lingle and Bush's okole because I want them to do better than they are doing.

I know some people who have not gotten over Hirono's loss, though none of them I believe are here.

As for Bush and Lingle... I think you mean "I want them to do things the way that a liberal wants it." Lingle has successfully bent in that direction in regard to this rail tax. She let the bill become law without her signature, and more than likely, the rail supporters on the City Council will approve the passage of Bill 40 that will actually put the taxing authority into motion by their 7 -2 majority on August 10.

The Mayor will sign the thing into law and come 2007, I am screwed along with all of the other taxpayers.

For many businesses, individuals who share the same view as me on this tax and rail issue, we all end up being losers.

You liberals and train supporters are the winners, as I have said many times in the past few days.

So you can rejoice in that win for this part of the war.

I was happy when Clinton was President, I didnt complain too much. But I do alot of complaining about Bush, because I dont like him.

The major difference that I have noticed between when Clinton was president and when Bush was president, that the level of absolute hate for Bush is very high among the liberal faction of the country, including the vocal majority of the liberals right here at HawaiiThreads.

I don't recall Clinton being as hated by the conservatives as much as the liberals hate Bush 2.

I agree 100% with you on one thing and that the tax levied upon us for this rail rapid transit is not the right way to go about doing this. Alternative options should have been saught like I suggested before tax the tourists who come here from all over the world...

My philosophy is to not raise any taxes. We pay enough taxes as is already. Hawaii's residents and businesses will hurt even more because of this tax increase.

Of course I am not in favor of the rail too. Since my commute is never going to be out to the west side of the island, I will never use it. I like the freedom of driving my own car to get from point A to point B in my own, private space and travelling on my own schedule. I don't like sharing rides with complete strangers unless I have to (like flying in an airplane).

The other reason why I have long been against the rail (besides it being an absolute cost burden and a total waste of taxpayer money) is that the home that I live in and own could (and was) be within a one mile radius of a possible rail route right of way. My understanding with the last rail proposal and could possibly be true with this one, is that the development rights along the route will be sold to developers. That means in addition the GE Tax increase that we will have to pay, the rail line will impact all property owners along the rail line with higher property tax assessments because of development.

Don't tell me to move. I like where I live now. The location is convenient to most of the places I need to go to.

If I run into Mufi or Lingle I will tell them that getting a rapid transit system is long overdue and I'm glad its coming, BUT I am not happy with this tax system forced upon us either. But until something changes we all have to live with it unless you simply refuse to buy anything Hawaii and as you know that is not good for local businesses and our economy.

That is why I hate the tax. It is an additional burden on EVERYONE including residents, businesses, the military and even tourists. Neighbor islanders are not going to get off so easy either. Most goods are shipped from Oahu after arriving from the mainland or elsewhere. The increased taxes to get those items to the neighbor islands will impact the prices they also pay even if the neighbor island does not implement the tax itself.

I walk nearly 60 miles a week, I dont need no stinkin' car or worthless bus. BUT I will be more than happy to ride this rail system I paid for thru my tax dollars, especially if I need to get to places on time. I sure as hell hope its air conditioned. It should be free in downtown sections too.

I am quite sure with all that walking you do, you are in better physical shape than me and may even live long enough to ride the train after it is built in the next 12 to 15 years. I don't think I will be living on Oahu by that time or even on this Earth at all. But sadly while I am here, the tax will be taken from me. My right to buy more things that I want has to be sacrificed to more taxes. It totally sucks.

There is an old saying, if you Build it, They will come. I guarantee you that people will ride this rail system, toursists and locals alike. If its takes 2% of the cars off the road then we are better off with it than not.

Go to http://www.honolulutraffic.com and read their ridership projections.

2% of the cars taken off the road will not ease congestion.

Oh and as for that old saying "if you build it they will come"....???

The City and State spent millions on Aloha Stadium. They wanted to attract a professional football team. A WFL and USFL team were here for a very short while, but none from the NFL ever came. Aloha Stadium actually contributed to the demise of the old Hawaii Islanders minor league baseball team. They were forced to move to Aloha Stadium and their attendance dropped off. Team moved out of Hawaii and became something else.

The State once again sunk millions into the planning and building of the Hawaii Convention Center. Since the place opened we hardly attracted that many large conventions. The planners were so optimistic about outside organizations using the center that for the first few years of its existence, local businesses and groups were prohibited from using the center at all.
Today local organizations can use it if no one from the outside booked the place. So like about the biggest event that is staged there is the annual First Hawaiian Automobile show.

Convention? What conventions? Hawaii is currently being laughed off the convention center map because we are still perceived as being a fun in the sun place and that no one who comes here will actually do any business. That is a very hard obstacle for the Convention Center to overcome.

About the only thing that was built that made people come was our freeway system. If we had the room to build more roads, the usage of those roads would be higher than anything this proposed train will attract.

Rail is a bad idea for Honolulu. We cannot afford it. We don't need it. We cannot maintain it.

The time to stop this madness is now. No New Taxes.

[Miulang]

Re: Tax Hike for Rail?

Thoughtful column on the issue in the Advertiser this morning. The question is: what will the people 7 generations into the future have to deal with when it's their turn to grow up in Hawai'i?

Miulang

[mel]

Leiderman is a Cheerleader for Rail and More Taxes

Mike Leiderman and the Honolulu Advertiser have been cheerleaders for rail and all of their columns and stories reflect that bias. They are part of the long term conspiracy to increase taxes and cost of living in Hawaii.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Leiderman is a Cheerleader for Rail and More Taxes

They are part of the long term conspiracy to increase taxes and cost of living in Hawaii.

Pray tell, Mel... who else is in on this cOnSpiRaCy???

[oggboy]

Re: Tax Hike for Rail?

Very Very Hot Topic Here...............this Also Concerns The Neiboring Island`s........ Any Feed Back About Paying For Something That`s Not On Your Island.......mass Transit .......oggboy

[mel]

Honolulu's GE Tax Increase Will Impact Neighbor Islanders

This was brought up in the Rick Hamada radio show the other day. Yes, neighbor islanders will be impacted by Honolulu's increase to the General Excise Tax. Most consumer goods are shipped and processed in Honolulu. Then they go out to the neighbor islands. Whatever transaction costs that occur between Oahu and neighbor island vendors will be impacted by the increased GE Tax.

Therefore it would be a very good idea for all neighbor island taxpayers and business to also inundate the Honolulu City Council before the August 2 Transportation Committee Hearing and the August 10 Third Reading vote that will authorize the county to rasie the tax. Honolulu's tax hike will bite not only Honolulu taxpayers, but also neighbor island taxpayers and consumer wallets too.

And what do neighbor island residents get from the increased General Excise Tax?

NOTHING. NADA. ZERO! Just more money being sucked out of your wallet.

CLICK ON THIS LINK TO CALL, FAX OR CONTACT A HONOLULU CITY COUNCIL MEMBER.

DOWNLOAD: Why Rail Transit Never Improves Traffic Congestion (PDF file)

More information on the Rail Tax: HonoluluTraffic.com

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Tax Hike for Rail?

I'm from the Big Island and I'm against this tax increase.

What bothers me is that wasn't Kapolei supposed to be Oahu's 2nd City? It was designed and built to move traffic migration to the west end of Oahu instead of having commuters drive east into town. What happened to this grand vision? Now all it seems is that instead of building a city where commuters stay in their general vicinity, we're making it worse by hauling them like cattle to the same place we were trying to keep them out of.

Anyone played that computer game called Sim City...I mean the first version where you build cities and infrastructures? In this game to build a successful city, you started with an industrial zone, then build marginal housing to satisfy those industrial workers. Then you build commercial zones and then power companies, then residential zones.

It seems Oahu did the exact opposite putting in homes with no commercial zones to supply jobs to keep those homeowners from driving into town. Campbell Industrial Park was already there but as it is, with the complaints from neighboring communities, many plants are being forced out of one of the last outposts of industrial areas left on Oahu. Pretty soon all you'll have is housing and no proxemic infrastructure to support it and then you'll have to use a rail system to alleviate it. Oh MY I guess we're at that point already.

So much for our elected officials "vision". Typical bandaid approach to fixing things around here. We need a long range vision that will be kept despite who is the next governor/mayor/whatever. It seems every four or eight years the plan changes with each new leader we get and we end up going nowhere and spending big bucks getting there. Meanwhile our keiki suffer from lack of funds for schoolbooks while we keep sinking millions of dollars into failed projects like the Halawa Stadium where the bulk of income comes from it's parking lots from the swap meets.

Now that's real effective use of that rusting hulk. Heck even the USS Arizona seems to be lasting longer than the stadium and THAT HAS BEEN UNDER SALT WATER FOR OVER HALF A CENTURY! Halawa stadium has only been around for half that time.

I think it's time for our government to really look around and ask themselves, "Have we made Hawaii a better place for it's taxpayers...or not?"

[Miulang]

Re: Tax Hike for Rail?

I hope the bucket of money that Hawai'i is supposed to get from the $286 billion federal Transportation bill that was just passed isn't contingent on approval of the GET increases for a light rail system. There's a bunch of other critical infrastructure projects that still need to be completed.

Up here, we got federal funding to replace the Alaska Way Viaduct, which is one of the major arterials through the city and which was heavily damaged by the earthquakes of 2002. The Mayor is saying if the voters rescind the 3 cent/gallon gas surcharge, we'll lose the money from the feds, which is kind of a subtle hint that we'd better not vote down that gas tax increase, which will generate over $2.2 billion over the next 6 years.

Miulang

[mel]

Congress Did Not Approve Rail Transit

From HonoluluTraffic.com, the website tax increase and rail supporters hate:

July 30, 2005

Congress did not approve rail transit yesterday:

It is understandable that if the media only reads Congressman Abercrombies press handouts that they wouldbelieve that Congress approved Honolulu s rail transit project yesterday in the SAFETEA-LU Transportation bill. That is not the case.

Congress put a place-holder in the transportation bill for a Honolulu Rapid Transit project. Think of Bus/Rapid Transit (BRT) and that our former bus company was Honolulu Rapid Transit Co. Ltd.

The federal government cannot approve rail transit, or any other mass transit option, until the federal Alternatives Analysis process is complete. That has only just begun.

The various rapid transit options including Bus/Rapid Transit, Busways,rail transit and HOT lanes are all still in play.

Remember that it is all about money and power; it has nothing to do with transportation. Click on Follow the Money.

Clicking on the above will download a PDF file.

[Miulang]

Re: Tax Hike for Rail?

The Honolulu City Council today voted to approve the transit tax by a vote of 7-2. It is estimated that the tax will cost a household anywhere between $245-$450 annually for 15 years. I just hope they do a better job of managing the project than the idjits in charge of the Seattle Monorail Project are (was going to cost $11 billion over FORTY years for our piddly 14-mile system until the outraged voters stopped it and forced the committee to go back to the drawing board).

Miulang

[mel]

Hawaii is Closed for Business

The "Open for Business" sign is now turned off.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Tax Hike for Rail?

Guess it's time to pack up and move to the mainland...

[Miulang]

Re: Tax Hike for Rail?

If you have any interest in the progress (or lack thereof) of the light rail alternatives in Honolulu, go to this website. There's another meeting on the 19th.

One of the four alternatives the committee is studying is the building of 2 elevated roadways above the existing freeways which initially would be used by buses and high occupancy vehicles (and by single occupant vehicles if they paid a toll). Wonder how earthquake prone this part of the island is?

Elevated roadways pancaked in the Loma Prieta earthquake (and pancaked a freeway in San Francisco) and we've got a worry about our Alaskan Way viaduct up here (2 levels), too.

Miulang