Comments on the Akaka Bill?

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Actually, if Hawaii was a sovereign nation today, the smart thing would be to NOT have any alliances or symbiotic relations with any major powers. Instead, one has to play the diplomatic whore and court all of them. Have Russian, Chinese, American warships come and go at Pearl. I'm not so sure how interested American military might have for Hawaii these days since their threat is from Asia and Guam is the new island fortress stronghold for American interests. China and Russia on the other hand might want a foothold in Hawaii to bring their forward presence closer to the US.

You're right...particularly in light of the US's standing in the arena of world politics, to be aligned with the US might not be such a wise move...

Miulang

[Konaguy]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

You're right...particularly in light of the US's standing in the arena of world politics, to be aligned with the US might not be such a wise move...

I think it would be disastrous if Hawaii was a sovereign nation that it did not at least have self defense agreement with the US. History would be repeating
itself over again. As I recall, Russia, England and others tried to make a play for Hawaii in the 1800s. I really don't think that a sovereign Hawaii could
defend against a country with a stronger military (Russia, England etc).Unless they had a self defense agreement with the US.

I don't want Japan,Russia or England taking over Hawaii.

Aside that it would have to be that way anyway. As I highly doubt the US would walk away from the billions they've spent at Pearl Harbor and other military installations here.

[glossyp]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

China and Russia on the other hand might want a foothold in Hawaii to bring their forward presence closer to the US.

Like the U.S. would ever let that happen? Not likely. Being a "diplomatic whore" as you so charmingly state it, is a sure fire way to open Hawaii up to all sorts of activities that could make that U.S. military seem benign.

[joshuatree]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

I think it would be disastrous if Hawaii was a sovereign nation that it did not at least have self defense agreement with the US. History would be repeating
itself over again. As I recall, Russia, England and others tried to make a play for Hawaii in the 1800s. I really don't think that a sovereign Hawaii could
defend against a country with a stronger military (Russia, England etc).Unless they had a self defense agreement with the US.

I don't want Japan,Russia or England taking over Hawaii.

Aside that it would have to be that way anyway. As I highly doubt the US would walk away from the billions they've spent at Pearl Harbor and other military installations here.

Like the U.S. would ever let that happen? Not likely. Being a "diplomatic whore" as you so charmingly state it, is a sure fire way to open Hawaii up to all sorts of activities that could make that U.S. military seem benign.

The discussion is IF Hawaii is a sovereign nation today, not if Hawaii tried to break away from the US. So IF Hawaii is sovereign, balancing relations with major powers is the better way to go versus aligning with one. Of course, being a part of the US, we (I'll say most of us and not all of us since not everyone is on the same page) view having the US military and presence as a good thing. But if we tried to think as a sovereign Hawaii, what's do different about having a US presence here vs a Russian vs Chinese vs Japanese vs British? If a sovereign Hawaii had the resources, there is no need to line up with a major power for military protection. Buying and acquiring a vibrant defence force, even possessing a few nukes, will ensure being left alone.

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

The discussion is IF Hawaii is a sovereign nation today, not if Hawaii tried to break away from the US. So IF Hawaii is sovereign, balancing relations with major powers is the better way to go versus aligning with one. Of course, being a part of the US, we (I'll say most of us and not all of us since not everyone is on the same page) view having the US military and presence as a good thing. But if we tried to think as a sovereign Hawaii, what's do different about having a US presence here vs a Russian vs Chinese vs Japanese vs British? If a sovereign Hawaii had the resources, there is no need to line up with a major power for military protection. Buying and acquiring a vibrant defence force, even possessing a few nukes, will ensure being left alone.

That is a very reasonable way of looking at it, Joshua, because those of us who have always just lived under the American flag obviously would prefer to continue to live under the American flag, but how do we know what we have today is best for us? I think it would be kinda cool to have a different passport and be able to travel more freely all over the world without having to worry about being called "stupid American" There definitely is a different cachet to saying you were born in Hawai'i than saying you were born in America.

Miulang

[Keanu]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

I think it would be disastrous if Hawaii was a sovereign nation that it did not at least have self defense agreement with the US. History would be repeating
itself over again.

There would be no reason to fear a Russian, British, Chinese, etc, invasion. According to International Law, there are only two cases in which a nation or group of nations can legally undertake armed intervention against another nation: in self-defense against an armed attack or if the United Nations Security Council authorizes a coalition of nations to intervene militarily to maintain peace and security in the world. I don't see either case being applicable to a sovereign Hawai'i.

As I recall, Russia, England and others tried to make a play for Hawaii in the 1800s. I really don't think that a sovereign Hawaii could
defend against a country with a stronger military (Russia, England etc).Unless they had a self defense agreement with the US.

Kamehameha and his heir, Liholiho, forged strong relationships with the British. Ironically, Liholiho died in England while seeking an audience with King George IV. Liholiho, apparently afraid of American and Russian influences, was in England seeking British protection.

Kauikeouli (Kamehameha III), temporarily ceded Hawai'i to Great Britain in 1843 fearing the French were on its way to attack Hawai'i but a British Admiral restored the Hawaiian Kingdom when he learned a Britsh Commander was responsible for spreading the false rumor of a French invasion.

The British believed that the Hawaiian Monarchy should rule Hawai'i. Obviously, the ruling powers of Hawai'i didn't feel like they needed America's protection, if anything, they sought protection from America.

[anapuni808]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Kamehameha and his heir, Liholiho, forged strong relationships with the British. Ironically, Liholiho died in England while seeking an audience with King George IV. Liholiho, apparently afraid of American and Russian influences, was in England seeking British protection.

Kauikeouli (Kamehameha III), temporarily ceded Hawai'i to Great Britain in 1843 fearing the French were on its way to attack Hawai'i but a British Admiral restored the Hawaiian Kingdom when he learned a Britsh Commander was responsible for spreading the false rumor of a French invasion.

The British believed that the Hawaiian Monarchy should rule Hawai'i. Obviously, the ruling powers of Hawai'i didn't feel like they needed America's protection, if anything, they sought protection from America.

Keanu - would you please quote your source for this information? I'd like to read more about this version.

Thanks!

[Keanu]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Keanu - would you please quote your source for this information? I'd like to read more about this version.

Thanks!

Anapuni, the source of my information is/was my 11th grade Hawaiian History teacher. I pulled my information from my study notes.

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

An interesting Alaska connection to the Akaka Bill.

Miulang

[anapuni808]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Anapuni, the source of my information is/was my 11th grade Hawaiian History teacher. I pulled my information from my study notes.

I of course don't know where you went to school or what your teacher's qualifications were, but you might want to investigate further. I don't believe your information is quite correct.

[pzarquon]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Akaka Bill faces White House fight

The bill, to be heard on the House floor tomorrow, is identical to the Senate's so-called Akaka Bill, named after its sponsor, U.S. Sen. Daniel Akaka. If passed and eventually presented to Bush, his senior advisers would recommend a veto, the White House said.

Hawaii Sen. Akaka's bill faces House debate

This is the second time the full House has taken up the bill, known as the Akaka bill for its sponsor, Sen. Daniel Akaka, D-Hawai'i, which originally passed the chamber in 2000. But the measure has remained stalled in the Senate because of fierce Republican opposition since then.

[zztype]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

HR 505, the 'Akaka Bill,' just passed the U.S. House without revision by a 261-153 vote.

Now, on to the Senate.

Honolulu Advertiser has the story.

[Mililani]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

HR 505, the 'Akaka Bill,' just passed the U.S. House without revision by a 261-153 vote.

Now, on to the Senate.

Honolulu Advertiser has the story.

So much time has gone by and so many revisions have been presented that I no longer know how the Akaka Bill is supposed to help the Hawaiians. Does anyone know where I can find the latest proposal? I've tried google, but have not had much luck. Thank you in advance!

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

So much time has gone by and so many revisions have been presented that I no longer know how the Akaka Bill is supposed to help the Hawaiians. Does anyone know where I can find the latest proposal? I've tried google, but have not had much luck. Thank you in advance!

Here it is.

Miulang

[Mililani]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Thank you, Miulang! I'll take a look at it.

Everything I've googled so far are articles on why people oppose the bill.
They sound awfully SCARED like they are going to lose everything!