Comments on the Akaka Bill?

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

I don't think either OHA or GRIH wants to put this thing to a popular vote, IMO. Both sides have too much to lose by hearing what the true sentiments of the entire State are. And the more I read about Hawaiian history (in the 19th and early 20th centuries), the more angry I get at the way politics was used to take away the rights and the land from the people who first lived in the 'aina.

Hawai'i will never become a sovereign nation again, but the descendants of its original inhabitants do deserve more than what they have been given in return thus far for everyone else's being able to live in "paradise".

Miulang

[waioli kai]

Hawai'i, sovereign islands

.

m= "Hawai'i will never become a sovereign nation again."

Hawai'i is, its various islands are, much more likely to again become sovereign islands, than is the United States to remain a sovereign nation forever, muchless forever occupying Hawai'i.

Hawai'i exists as an archepeligo, a physical, real existence independent the artificiality of survey boundaries and temporal legal documents. The "United States" is a temporally agreed upon figment of imagination whose physical definition is wholly dependent upon police and military enforcement of its boundaries.

[Jewlipino]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

In other words outside of a total breakdown of law and order, a disintegration of the Pax Americana if you will, Hawaiian sovereignty is an impossibility? Not sure if that's what you meant but there is something to it. Sure if there was a huge war tomorrow and our lines of communication and trade were cut off, Washington DC reduced to a glassy crater, etc., sovereignty would be a distinctly greater possibility. Oh but lets not forget about all the military assets based here in Hawaii.... whatever government is left would still want to retain control of the harbor, and the nukes, and the airstrips. Anyway even without police and military there would still be the majority of non-Hawaiians that would still be living here. Sovereignty is not the Akaka Bill, but it may be the best offer on the table.

Jewlipino

[TuNnL]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Posted on: Tuesday, June 6, 2006 2:38 PM HST

Senate to debate Akaka Bill

Well, it looks like the Senate has taken the first step. No turning back now. Sen. Akaka is about to find out how much support he really has. Talk about pivotal moments in history! This vote will determine the future of Akaka’s candidacy for re-election, the future of Hawaiian Sovereignty, and the future of the U.S. government’s involvement in that process. You gotta ask yourself: could this issue surface on national network news?

[Linkmeister]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Posted on: Tuesday, June 6, 2006 2:38 PM HST
You gotta ask yourself: could this issue surface on national network news?

Nah. Not when there's a lovely wedge issue called gay marriage to talk about.

[LikaNui]

Live coverage of Akaka bill starts at 9 a.m.

Live coverage of Akaka bill starts at 9 a.m.
U.S. Sen. Daniel Akaka is expecting to begin the debate on his Native Hawaiian Government Reorganization Act at 9 a.m. today Hawai'i time on the Senate floor.
Debate on the Akaka Bill is expected to last until noon Hawai'i time.
Live coverage is available on C-SPAN-2. It also is accessible on the Internet by way of a link to the Senate floor at http://akaka.senate.gov.

[waioli kai]

Dissolutions of U.S.

m= "Hawai'i will never become a sovereign nation again."

wk= "Hawaii is, its various islands are, much more likely to again become sovereign islands, than is the United States to remain a sovereign nation forever, muchless forever occupying Hawai'i."

j= "In other words outside of a total breakdown of law and order, a disintegration of the Pax Americana if you will, Hawaiian sovereignty is an impossibility?

Why should it be infered that dissolution of governments, even superpower governments, necessarily entails "total breakdown of law and order".

"The Territory of Hawaii , abbreviated officially as T.H., was established on 7 July 1898 and dissolved on 21 August 1959 when Hawaii became a state. The U.S. Congress passed the Newlands Resolution which annexed the former Kingdom of Hawai‘i and later Republic of Hawaii to the United States. Hawai‘i's territorial history includes a period from 1941 to 1944 when the islands were placed under martial law. Civilian government was dissolved and a military governor was appointed." [bold italics, mine]

Why imagine it can only be that "a huge war and our lines of communication and trade were cut off, Washington DC reduced to a glassy crater, etc., " must happen in order to reverse the U.S. occupation of Hawai'i.?

[waioli kai]

Re: Dissolutions of US

Listening to and watching (c-span2) Tennessee U.S. Senator Lamar Alexander oppose the Akaka Bill is too observe another fanatical U.S. display of U.S nationalUSts claiming not only is their Hawaii their legitimate domain in Hawai'i, but claiming as well that all things of Hawai'i are worse than hogwash, Hawai'i is (not fundamentally unlike Saddam's Iraq was within nationalUSt$' cesspool of paranoia) dangerous and threatening to the integrity, the Union of the United States.(distinct from Hawaii) (1012am Hawai'i time)

Now it's Alabama's Jeff Sessions turn to righteoUS up his opposition to all who, all which challenges his sense of justUS. Sessions expresses his concern for lands in Hawai'i, his concern about race-based government, his concern about discrimination. "Native Hawaiians never exercized sovereignty, ..." says Sessions.

Hawai'ian sovereignty leaders and supporters need to be familiarized with this Senator Sessions who is to Hawai'i as Hitler was to his neighbors.
He is so proud he just stated he wants his comments to go on record.

Now it's Larry Craig of ethnically-cleansed, cleansed of Native Americans, Idaho asking for more time to concur with Sessions. Hard to digest just three nationalUSts venomously upholding their desire for "equal protection of the law". To oppose "rejection of the American melting pot idea..." is what these nationalUSt$ claim is a nationalUSt aim.

Now Senator Inouye speaking in defense of the Akaka Bill, undoing the knots of my repulsion full stomach following doses of Alexander, Sessions, Craig. Inoue says that to become law "The Akaka Bill will unite the peoples of Hawai'i ", and people of Hawaii, far more than it will divide them. The Sessions, Craigs and Alexanders of the U.S. know that no passage of the bill will divide Hawai'ians, divide Hawai'i from the peoples of US's Hawaii.

Now Senator Akaka is at a podium further explaining the bill which bears his name in the den of venomoUS justUS..

Now it is Senator John Cornyn of indigenous culture, indigenous people-cleansed Texas espousing his views about the necessity to homogenize Hawai'i with the U.S.'s Hawaii (occupied Hawai'i), with the U.S. When Texas dissolved as Republic of Texas into State of Texas there was/is a provision for Texas to secede from the Union or split up into 3 to 5 different states at some point in the future. And the Territory of Hawaii was wisely, honestly dissolved into the State of Hawaii?? No way !! Why agree to a political marriage with no provisions for dissolution? It would be a one-sided suicide pact to do so.

Now 1130am Hawaii Senator Ted Stevens speaking in favor of the bill which is in my view the best speech Senator Stevens has ever made.

Now Senator Barack Obama should be putting more icing on the cake, but there is sure to be too much nationalUSt$ heat to allow the icing to stand for long.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) just claimed that the "tribe" of Native Hawaiians "never existed."

[timkona]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

To support the Akaka Bill, would one have to villify or condemn the decision making process of their grandparents, who voted for statehood back in the 50's.

How many of the oldest living Hawaiians, who were around for the statehood vote, would admit to their YES vote? And how many of them support the Akaka Bill?

History has a tendency to change over the course of time. Veddy Interesting.

I wonder how many new ways we could think of to separate people?

Maybe we should concentrate on the unity aspect of humanity, and less on the differences?

If we do not hang together, we will surely hang separately.

[waioli kai]

Pax Americana as imperialism

'Pax Americana as imperialism The long history of U.S. isolationism subsided only after major shocks associated with the Spanish-American War, --U.S./corporatUSt military overthrow the Kingdom of Hawai'i to create the Provisional Government of Hawaii --, World War I, and World War II, the Cold War, and various post-Cold War conflicts with non-state actors. Critics argue that the United States has sought, or has found itself forced into, a quasi-imperialist role by its status as the world's sole superpower. However, the term "isolationist" in this context applies to the global stage; the United States has never been isolationist with respect to the Western Hemisphere, which it has considered to fall within its sphere of influence, and has a long history of military intervention within this region of the world, ....

'Provisional Government of Hawaii, proclaimed on January 17, 1893 by the 13 member Committee of Safety under the leadership of Lorrin A. Thurston and Sanford B. Dole. It governed Hawaii after the overthrow of Queen Lili'uokalani until the Republic of Hawaii was established on July 4, 1894.

'Following the overthrow and the establishment of the Provisional Government in Hawaii, Lorrin A. Thurston actively lobbied for annexation to the United States. At the same time Princess Victoria Kaiulani was in Washington D.C. to state that the overthrow of the Hawaiian Monarchy was illegal.

'President Grover Cleveland opposed the idea of annexation, being an anti-imperialist himself, he stated that the Americans were wrong to use military force against a peaceful country. He called for the reinstatement of Queen Liliuokalani after an investigation by James Henderson Blount, who produced the Blount Report. The matter was referred by Cleveland to Congress after Sanford Dole refused Cleveland's demands, and the U.S. Senate held a further invesgitation, cluminating in the Morgan Report, which completely exonerated the U.S. from any involvement in the overthrow. After the findings of this committee were submitted, Cleveland reversed his position, and accepted the Provisional Government as legitimate, and rebuffed further requests from the queen to interefere in the matter.

'Unsuccessful in their quest for immeditate annexation, Lorrin A. Thurston and the Provisional Government of Hawaii convened a constitutional convention and established the Republic of Hawaii. This government maintained power until the U.S. finally agreed to annex Hawaii in 1898.'

=== Throughout these wikipedia.com citations it was most interesting to see how someone had tried to be politically correct by putting okina in every word "Hawaii". Not only is such indiscriminate inclusion of okina in the word "Hawaii" politically incorrect, it is sacriligeous too. Hawai'i was illegally overthrown, subjugated by a cabal of corporatUSt$ who for all real acts and purposes reviled all that was/is Hawai'i. No U.S. provisional, republic, territorial or state government can justly, rightfully incorporate the peoples/word/concept of Hawai'i (with okina) into their name, into their illegitimacy to foster an appearance of legitimacy.

Throughout my reprinting of these wikipedia excerpts, I did not perpetuate wikipedia's current use of okina in any name which was not not justly, was not rightfully derivative of Hawai'ians and the culture of the islands of Hawai'i. ===

'The term Pax Americana (Latin: "American Peace") denotes the period of relative peace in the Western world since the end of World War II in 1945, coinciding with the dominant military and economic position of the United States. It places the U.S. in the military and diplomatic role of a modern-day Roman Empire (Pax Romana). During this period, no armed conflict has emerged among major Western nations themselves, and no nuclear weapons have been used, although the United States and its allies have been involved in various regional wars (such as the Korean War, the Vietnam War, War in Afghanistan , War in Iraq) and have maintained espionage and covert operations in various other areas.

'The term Pax Americana is used by both supporters and critics of U.S. foreign policy, and as such, it carries different connotations depending on the context. For example, it appears repeatedly in a September 2000 document, Rebuilding America's Defenses,pdf by the neoconservative think tank, Project for the New American Century, but is also used by critics to characterize American dominance (hyperpower) as imperialist in function and basis.'

[LikaNui]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

Excuse me for asking, Waioli Kai, but all your references are from Wikipedia. I've never used Wikipedia, but isn't the one where anyone can post and/or edit things? Can it really be trusted as a source?
Again, I'm just asking.

[waioli kai]

Hawaii vs. Hawai'i

.

LikaNui= "... all your references are from Wikipedia. I've never used Wikipedia, but isn't the one where anyone can post and/or edit things? Can it really be trusted as a source? "

Yes, wikipedia is that kind of source "where anyone can post and/or edit things", but it's not the free-for-all anything-goes kind of evolving medium such a description may suggest. There a good amount of oversight there. For exemplary sourcing I prefer britannica.com; however, wikipedia allows a wider range of controversial examination.

With regard to wikipedia's use of Hawai'ian okina in every word "Hawaii" it is most likely the result of someone's well-meaning intention not to offend all that is, all who are, of Hawai'i. Just as it is not presently widely used in Hawai'ian discourse to have okina in the word/description Hawai'ian, it is not yet imperative that political distinctions be made between that which is of Hawai'i (such as the culture and peoples of Hawai'i) and that which is not Hawai'i, indeed that which often contrary to all that is Hawai'i; such as, the Provisional Government of Hawaii, the Republic of Hawaii, the Territory of Hawaii, the State of Hawaii and "Hawaiians" when the term "Hawaiian" is used like Senator Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn, says is the State of Hawaii's equivalent of Tennessee's "Tennesseeans".

[anapuni808]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

What happened in the Senate today was NOT a hearing on whether the Akaka Bill should be passed. It was a hearing about "cloture". A vote will be taken tomorrow on whether the bill will be heard on the Senate floor and passed or rejected.

Personally, I found many of the senators to be VERY ill-informed about Hawaii's history. and the ones giving statements about native's status and tribal matters were all WHITE - not a "native" to be seen, except for Akaka. However, as long as they vote AGAINST the bill - I'm fine with them being ignorant. They can be educated later - just don't pass this piece of crap!

All of the discussion today seemed to be around the "racial" issue - its not about race folks, its about political status. That is only one of the reasons why the Akaka Bill is not a good thing - it doesn't address political status, only racial.

[Miulang]

Re: Comments on the Akaka Bill?

What happened in the Senate today was NOT a hearing on whether the Akaka Bill should be passed. It was a hearing about "cloture". A vote will be taken tomorrow on whether the bill will be heard on the Senate floor and passed or rejected.

Personally, I found many of the senators to be VERY ill-informed about Hawaii's history. and the ones giving statements about native's status and tribal matters were all WHITE - not a "native" to be seen, except for Akaka. However, as long as they vote AGAINST the bill - I'm fine with them being ignorant. They can be educated later - just don't pass this piece of crap!

All of the discussion today seemed to be around the "racial" issue - its not about race folks, its about political status. That is only one of the reasons why the Akaka Bill is not a good thing - it doesn't address political status, only racial.

Talk about misinformed...Tucker Carlson did a piece on the Hawai'i sovereignty issue this evening, too. What a schmuck. Totally misinformed. Thinks it's a race issue, too. Geeze...

Miulang