Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

[Da Rolling Eye]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

Not sure I am getting the analogy here. Just because Pilgrim homes had firearms - which I would think a necessity for food-gathering and protection in a wilderness environment - how does that make gun ownership a Christian tenet?

I don't know. That one got away from me. <LOL>

You know?...I went against my promise not to get involved with political discussions and I blew it. Well, bye, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, ciao, sayonara....

[Jewlipino]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

never shoulda brought up religion..... sorry folks, won't do it again.

Jewlipino

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

I don't know. That one got away from me. <LOL>

Been there, done that, got the scar to prove it. Thanks for admitting.

You know?...I went against my promise not to get involved with political discussions and I blew it.

Yeah - hard to resist sometimes. Let it fly.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

never shoulda brought up religion..... sorry folks, won't do it again.

To borrow a phrase I've seen many others use here (especially my over-the-mountains pal lurkah): "Ainokea." It's such a hot-button topic, but I'm not bothered by that.

I admire those whose faith, whatever it may be, is strong enough to take a little ribbing from time to time. Anyone who considers themselves in that camp should read "Lamb" by Christopher Moore, a funny (and VERY sacreligious) take on the "lost" years of Jesus.

Any god I follow will have to have a sense of humor, bigger than anyone can imagine.

[kimo55]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

never shoulda brought up religion..... sorry folks, won't do it again.

Jewlipino

you better not. oddawise da odda guys' god, dat jewish carpenter from Galileo or whatevaz, goin karang ya alahz, guaranz ballbaranz!

[sinjin]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

Have you seen the Justice Department and FBI statistics on how many rapes, murders and burglaries were avoided because the intended victim was armed?

I'd love to see them. Got a link?

[kimo55]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

try dis on fo size...

http://www.armedandsecure.org/debate.shtml

[Jewlipino]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

A couple of points regarding self-defense and guns.... Back when everybody use to carry a weapon (old West for example.... not the Hollywood version, the real West) an extensive body of law built up regarding the acceptability of using a firearm as a means of self-defense. The crux of the matter is that if you possess a loaded firearm and you face for example, a thief, you are not allowed to employ lethal force against said thief unless he/she were putting your life in IMMINENT danger, please note that for the most part rape does not qualify as such (unless the rapist were threatening your life too). Furthermore if you were to draw said gun on said thief you face the possibility that you in fact are committing assault with a deadly weapon (for those of you not acquainted with the meaning of assault under the law, it is the threat of death/injury on another person and not the act itself, thus one could certainly commit battery/murder without assaulting the victim), and that by drawing said weapon and threatening said thief the very real case exists to be made that if at that point the thief were to pull out his/her own gun and then shoot you dead the thief may be able to claim self-defense as a result of you threatening him/her. SO, all of you self-defense/home-defense rambos out there have now been put on notice, even if you had this ridiculous proposed law I seriously doubt that any good will come of it.

Jewlipino

[sinjin]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

A couple of points regarding self-defense and guns.... Back when everybody use to carry a weapon (old West for example.... not the Hollywood version, the real West) an extensive body of law built up regarding the acceptability of using a firearm as a means of self-defense. The crux of the matter is that if you possess a loaded firearm and you face for example, a thief, you are not allowed to employ lethal force against said thief unless he/she were putting your life in IMMINENT danger, please note that for the most part rape does not qualify as such (unless the rapist were threatening your life too). Furthermore if you were to draw said gun on said thief you face the possibility that you in fact are committing assault with a deadly weapon (for those of you not acquainted with the meaning of assault under the law, it is the threat of death/injury on another person and not the act itself, thus one could certainly commit battery/murder without assaulting the victim), and that by drawing said weapon and threatening said thief the very real case exists to be made that if at that point the thief were to pull out his/her own gun and then shoot you dead the thief may be able to claim self-defense as a result of you threatening him/her. SO, all of you self-defense/home-defense rambos out there have now been put on notice, even if you had this ridiculous proposed law I seriously doubt that any good will come of it.

Jewlipino

I think you'll find the definition of "in fear for your life" has been broadly interpreted in many states and cases. A woman with a permit to carry(and maybe without) wouldn't have to distinguish between "only" rape and not worse before using deadly force. Neither would a elderly gentleman when accosted by a young assailant or a father with keikis in tow.

For better or worse there's some truth to the saying, "an armed public is a polite public".

Btw referring to those who hold the 2nd Amendment dear as "rambos" serves to further the discussion nil.

For the record I am not a firearm enthusiast. Nor do I particularly fear the good guys having guns.

[Jewlipino]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

We're talking about people who casually talk about how they're gonna kill someone. It's the closest thing we get to barbarism in this country these days. While I believe that other people's opinions should be listened to and considered if it is a foolish or ethically bankrupt opinion it doesn't necessarily deserve respect. Last time I checked killing another person was a function we reserved for the State (within our country) or the military (the armed appendage of the State that ideally should only be killing people who aren't from this country). Vigilanteeism is a first step on the slippery slope toward a new round of people killing other people because you don't like how they look, act, think, or pray. If a person comes up to you and says the world is flat you may listen to them but it is unlikely that that you would give their opinion any credence or weight. It's just like how the American Media for years reported on worsening environmental conditions as if there was lack of scientific consensus regarding its effects. They would put on an environmentalist who would talk about how bad it is, then they'd put on a corporate sponsored "scientist" how blather on about how nothing was actually going to happen. In that way they would frame the debate as a 50/50 split when in reality the vast majority of the scientific community had accepted that there will be dire consequences for our actions as a species as early as the late 80's. If someone is spouting an opinion because they have an ulterior motive ("I like guns and I want to kill thieves and rapists") it is incumbent on the people involved in the conversation to call them out on their BS. Hopefully my motives in this discussion have been open and forthright, and if not PLEASE call me out on MY BS.

Jewlipino

P.S. I think we should be STRICT Constitutional Contructionists when it comes to the "right" to bear arms. We should ONLY allow people to own and use muzzle-loading black powder muskets, can't fire those suckers hastily, that's for sure . That and you HAVE to be part of a well-regulated militia, otherwise, no guns for you!