New smoking ban

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

AlohaKine, here is an interesting link for you: http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../11300129.html

The law passed here in Las Vegas, but was so vaguely written, that even Mayor Goodman was wrapped around the axel! So, Las Vegas has issued a temporary restraining order to delay the smoking ban.

You see, Las Vegas is a "different" kind of place. We get 30 million visitors a year, and a lof of them are from Japan. They smoke. Las Vegas is supposed to be a destination of "anything goes", well, almost anything.

The way our law was written, it bans smoking in all restaurants (I have no problem with this, actually) OR places that serve food. Well, the local taverns that serve food...have opted to CLOSE the kitchens, so that their gambling customers can still smoke in the bar.

UH-OH...so, now, the ban would put 80,000 out of work in Las Vegas. All of the kitchen staff, food servers, not to mention the big HIT that the food distributers are going to take! By the way, my brother is a kitchen manager at a local "chain" tavern, who have announced that they are closing 20 of their 30 kitchens...for starters.

Oh, but you can STILL smoke on the casino floor, after all, it's a casino. A large, politically active entity that sways a lot of things in this town. So, the casinos will get MORE business, and the small tavern get.....SCREWED!

I am watching this one with great interest...indeed! You GO, Mayor Oscar Goodman, and have a gin on me

Wow, reality kicked in before the hurt started. Not here, the coalition for tobacco free hawaii is always ready to GAMBLE with people's livelyhoods. It's a losing bet the Vegas didn't want to take. Looks like this will be one of the 1/3 of bans that fail.

I was at a bar near Ala Moana friday night and the patrons were dressed like chairs. I was the only one there and they closed 30 minutes early. The Hawaii smoke free site "business center" says that a bar smoking ban has only "positive results" which they list. Looks like they forgot to include the 30% or more drop in business. I know people that used to go out all the time that have readjusted their lifestyles to favor "house parties" instead of the bars because they can still smoke, there is no set closing time, and it is cheaper. Once they get used to this new lifestyle the odds of them going back to the bars very often is small.

Mahalos for the link Hope.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

He brought it up, but you made a point of focusing on it... while showing you don't really understand how to use the word haole and that you truly don't know what you're talking about when describing Waikiki.

Yet the bottom line remains: The new no-smoking law on Oahu needs to be repealed.

I'm trying to help you guys come up with legitimate reasons why the smoking ban should be repealed. Associating the smoking ban with crimes against tourists is not a good reason. As far as I, the Honolulu tourist, am concerned, mid-Waikiki is the area on Kalakaua between Beachwalk and the International Marketplace. It's the area where I saw more international tourists than anywhere else when I stayed there on Hobron.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

As far as I, the Honolulu tourist, am concerned, mid-Waikiki is the area on Kalakaua between Beachwalk and the International Marketplace. It's the area where I saw more international tourists than anywhere else when I stayed there on Hobron.

Well, go ahead and believe that if you want. You're still wrong.

Waikiki is Waikiki is Waikiki. There's no Uptown, downtown, Uka, Mauka or whatever else you might dream up.

And you're trying to help "us" with your snarky comments and references to data more than 20 years old? Please.

You still have this thing about armchair quarterbacking from thousands of miles away. And I still have this thing about calling people on their crap.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

Well, go ahead and believe that if you want. You're still wrong.

Waikiki is Waikiki is Waikiki. There's no Uptown, downtown, Uka, Mauka or whatever else you might dream up.

And you're trying to help "us" with your snarky comments and references to data more than 20 years old? Please.

You still have this thing about armchair quarterbacking from thousands of miles away. And I still have this thing about calling people on their crap.

Just call me one of those stupid tourists, then.

Miulang

[glossyp]

Re: New smoking ban

All of my immediate family smoked. I was also married to a smoker. My kids and I never smoked! None of my family could answer the following question in a way that made any sense to me: "What, exactly, is so special about smoking that made you try it and like it?". IOW, "Why do you smoke?"! Both of my parents thought about it and responded, "I don't know.". My brother, who was/is a closet smoker, gave me one of his usual expletives. I remember him puking his guts out when he first tried smoking. What would make someone go back for more? I do understand it's an addiction and that's why people continue but one isn't born with that addiction.

I remember asking a classmate of mine the same question when we were in high school. His answer, "Because the smoke feels so good going down.". He died in his 40s.

So, with good intent, I ask all of you smokers the same question...
What, exactly, is it about smoking that made you try it and like it?

BTW, health issues aside, there have been some really good arguments in this thread, both pro and con, about the ban.

An interesting question about why people smoke. I would say there are several factors unrelated to addiction. One would be the social aspects, another would be the effect it has on the brain as in making it more active, able to focus and problem solve; it also supresses appetite which helps keep weight down. I often wonder if we (as in NASA) would have been able to bring Apollo 13 back safely, if the people working on the problem hadn't been smokers. Almost every genuis known in the past century was a smoker. Studies have shown that nicotine, however it is delivered, enhances thinking. Smokers are less likely to suffer from Alzheimer's and Parkinsons. Humans have been smoking for centuries and I find it hard to believe they were doing it for no other reason then they were addicted. As in most things, there are benefits and hazards. Smoking isn't all bad, it just happens that we live in a time where it's become socially unacceptable and the anti-smoking brigade is running the media, so we get a distorted view of smoking.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

An interesting question about why people smoke. I would say there are several factors unrelated to addiction. One would be the social aspects, another would be the effect it has on the brain as in making it more active, able to focus and problem solve; it also supresses appetite which helps keep weight down. I often wonder if we (as in NASA) would have been able to bring Apollo 13 back safely, if the people working on the problem hadn't been smokers. Almost every genuis known in the past century was a smoker. Studies have shown that nicotine, however it is delivered, enhances thinking. Smokers are less likely to suffer from Alzheimer's and Parkinsons. Humans have been smoking for centuries and I find it hard to believe they were doing it for no other reason then they were addicted. As in most things, there are benefits and hazards. Smoking isn't all bad, it just happens that we live in a time where it's become socially unacceptable and the anti-smoking brigade is running the media, so we get a distorted view of smoking.

Well said. I know that I tend to play chess better when I am smoking. The stress reduction properties are excellent as well. This ban can be beaten. People need to stand up and actively fight it.

The coalition for tobacco free hawaii only focuses on TOBACCO smoking and says it will not hurt businesses. That's not what's happening, my question is if they are "non-tobacco smoking", what are they really smoking to think that way?

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

Well said. I know that I tend to play chess better when I am smoking. The stress reduction properties are excellent as well. This ban can be beaten. People need to stand up and actively fight it.

The coalition for tobacco free hawaii only focuses on TOBACCO smoking and says it will not hurt businesses. That's not what's happening, my question is if they are "non-tobacco smoking", what are they really smoking to think that way?

Take this a couple of steps farther: does the law prevent people from chewing tobacco in restaurants and bars (which can be even more gross than a cigarette butt)? What if someone lit up a non-tobacco cigarette (they have these gawd awful ciggies that smell like cloves). Would that be against the law? Smoking marijuana is illegal, but is smoking non-tobacco cigarettes illegal too?

Miulang

[dick]

Re: New smoking ban

Take this a couple of steps farther: does the law prevent people from chewing tobacco in restaurants and bars (which can be even more gross than a cigarette butt)? What if someone lit up a non-tobacco cigarette (they have these gawd awful ciggies that smell like cloves). Would that be against the law? Smoking marijuana is illegal, but is smoking non-tobacco cigarettes illegal too?

Miulang

What's a non-tobacco cigarette?

Clove cigarettes are tobacco cigarettes with clove rolled in with tobacco, most coming from Indonesia. And many bars prohibited clove cigarettes even before the ban - they were often lumped in with cigars and pipes.

[sinjin]

Re: New smoking ban

An interesting question about why people smoke. I would say there are several factors unrelated to addiction. One would be the social aspects, another would be the effect it has on the brain as in making it more active, able to focus and problem solve; it also supresses appetite which helps keep weight down. I often wonder if we (as in NASA) would have been able to bring Apollo 13 back safely, if the people working on the problem hadn't been smokers. Almost every genuis known in the past century was a smoker. Studies have shown that nicotine, however it is delivered, enhances thinking. Smokers are less likely to suffer from Alzheimer's and Parkinsons. Humans have been smoking for centuries and I find it hard to believe they were doing it for no other reason then they were addicted. As in most things, there are benefits and hazards. Smoking isn't all bad, it just happens that we live in a time where it's become socially unacceptable and the anti-smoking brigade is running the media, so we get a distorted view of smoking.

All true and very fascinating. Unfortunately we live in a time in the US when the puritans are once again gaining strength. I don't blame them for their addiction to sobriety though. In a free country I'm allowed a certain amount of self-destructive behavior if I so choose, as long as I don't take others with me against their will. Most people who smoke will die of the same things that kill non-smokers.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

What's a non-tobacco cigarette?

Clove cigarettes are tobacco cigarettes with clove rolled in with tobacco, most coming from Indonesia. And many bars prohibited clove cigarettes even before the ban - they were often lumped in with cigars and pipes.

They also make cigarettes made out of lettuce leaves. I tried one a long time ago and it was, well, unimpressive. But I guess if you have an oral fixation, this would be an acceptable substitute. You could team smoking a lettuce leaf cigarette with a wad of chewing tobacco and satisfy your craving for sucking on something and your nicotine addiction at the same time.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

For years I attempted to be considerate but the braking point has been reached. The antis just don't stop. You express that you think I'm whining, noooooooo, we have a plan for action. I'm not some government goon's b***h. I have a brain and am going to use it. In 1993 the antis claimed that 3000 non-smoking people were dying every year from second hand smoke. In 1998, a federal judge shot this down, because the study was " biased" and "unscientific". The antis still use this figure and others, the truth is never an obstacle for the antis.

So for years you were attempting to be considerate and finally reached the "Braking" point and the antis just don't stop...That's a good pun

And yes I do believe you're whining because someone took your pleasure principle away and now you're mad.

But if you believe smoking won't kill you...smoke away. But do it in a lawful way.

If you don't like the law well I'm glad you're exercising your brain. Maybe with all that thinking you'll see the reality to what smoking does to your lungs and our environment.

You got a plan? Well that plan should have been instigated BEFORE the law was passed when legislation allowed for lobbying. Your thinking of a plan of action only tells me you haven't started one yet and that your actions are really reaction to what has been slid out from under your feet.

You lost a lot of ground with the passing of this law. Good luck in your fight because I'll be watching closely just to see what arguements you will be using. So far all I've heard from you is whining. Go to it and prove me wrong, this will be fun to watch.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Take this a couple of steps farther: does the law prevent people from chewing tobacco in restaurants and bars (which can be even more gross than a cigarette butt)? What if someone lit up a non-tobacco cigarette (they have these gawd awful ciggies that smell like cloves). Would that be against the law? Smoking marijuana is illegal, but is smoking non-tobacco cigarettes illegal too?

Miulang

SB3262 says in section 1 "definitions" that, " smoke or smoking means inhaling or exhaling the fumes of tobacco or any other plant material, or burning or carrying any lighted smoking equipment for tobacco or any other PLANT material."

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

SB3262 says in section 1 "definitions" that, " smoke or smoking means inhaling or exhaling the fumes of tobacco or any other plant material, or burning or carrying any lighted smoking equipment for tobacco or any other PLANT material."
I think the laws backer's wanted it to say tobacco and plant material so it wouldn't effect them being able to smoke crack cocaine ( as an additional law ) since it is not plant material or tobacco.

So you could still CHEW tobacco, correct? You're not burning anything. I guess lettuce leaf cigarettes would be verboten, then (thank gawd! ) I believe this is a loophole you guys should exploit. You can still get that nicotine buzz from a good chaw as you would with a lit ciggie. You wouldn't subject anyone to the hazards of second hand smoke. As a chewer, you'd still run the risk of developing hypertension, heart attacks and lung cancer, but you could also add tongue, cheek, mouth and throat cancer to that list. But it would be YOUR choice, and you wouldn't hurt anyone else.

Miulang

P.S. It might also cut down on the number of women who use tobacco. It doesn't look very feminine to have a wad stuck in your cheek.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

So you could still CHEW tobacco, correct? You're not burning anything. I guess lettuce leaf cigarettes would be verboten, then (thank gawd! ) I believe this is a loophole you guys should exploit. You can still get that nicotine buzz from a good chaw as you would with a lit ciggie. You wouldn't subject anyone to the hazards of second hand smoke. As a smoker, you'd still run the risk of developing hypertension, heart attacks and lung cancer, but you could also add tongue and throat cancer to that list. But it would be YOUR choice, and you wouldn't hurt anyone else.

Miulang

Ahhhh no. Few local people dip on the island. I personally don't. The beer could help wash all that chew spit down when you drink -Yuck. I don't think most guys are impressed by chicks with a big nasty dip their mouth either.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

Ahhhh no. Few people dip on the island. I personally don't. The beer could help wash all that chew spit down when you drink -Yuck. I don't think most guys are impressed by chicks with a big nasty dip their mouth either.

So what's the diff between a ciggie and a wad? Merely the way the nicotine is delivered, correct? While you're waiting for the law to get repealed, this is a way to stay legal. And if the concept of dipping is so offensive to you, it might mean you're not addicted enough to nicotine that you can't stop smoking.

Miulang