New smoking ban

[dick]

Re: New smoking ban

Just to get you off this "loophole," yeah people could chew.

Doesn't appear you understand the mechanics of it though. Chewing and drinking don't really go well together.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

Just to get you off this "loophole," yeah people could chew.

Doesn't appear you understand the mechanics of it though. Chewing and drinking don't really go well together.

So tell me why cigarettes and drinking have to go hand in hand, Dick. If it's not about getting the nicotine (which you could get either way) what is the diff? If you spit your chaw out into a spitoon and then take a drink, wouldn't that technically accomplish the same thing as lighting up a ciggie and taking a swig? And if you really cared about the health of other people, wouldn't you rather be inconvenienced a little bit rather than prohibited from using tobacco at all?

Miulang

[dick]

Re: New smoking ban

The real problem I have with this law is that owners of private establishments can't run them as they see fit. And why is it so hard non-smokers to go to a bar or club that doesn't allow smoking? Still been waiting for answers to that.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

The real problem I have with this law is that owners of private establishments can't run them as they see fit. And why is it so hard non-smokers to go to a bar or club that doesn't allow smoking? Still been waiting for answers to that.

And I said previously, according to most States' laws (including Hawai'i), a bar or a club is considered a public place as long as it allows the general public to enter. You wouldn't have problems if the club was private and only allowed members and their guests to enter.

While waiting for the Legislature to repeal or modify the law, why not try to find legal workarounds? Another idea: Has anyone from the pro-smoking lobby thought about contacting the owners of the establishments where a smoking ban was in place before the law was implemented? I'd be really curious to find out why these owners decided to go smoke-free even before being forced to, and I'd also be interested in finding out how much traffic they had prior to the law being implemented. Several other posters have indicated there are at least two of these places on Oahu.

Miulang

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

And I said previously, according to most States' laws (including Hawai'i), a bar or a club is considered a public place as long as it allows the general public to enter. You wouldn't have problems if the club was private and only allowed members and their guests to enter.

While waiting for the Legislature to repeal or modify the law, why not try to find legal workarounds? Another idea: Has anyone from the pro-smoking lobby thought about contacting the owners of the establishments where a smoking ban was in place before the law was implemented? I'd be really curious to find out why these owners decided to go smoke-free even before being forced to, and I'd also be interested in finding out how much traffic they had prior to the law being implemented. Several other posters have indicated there are at least two of these places on Oahu.

Miulang

There were more than two, I saw a list of over a dozen from a couple of years ago of resturant/bars that did it on their own. That's fine with me, if some people are really bothered by smoke that much they had somewhere to go. Now smokers have nowhere to go accept home or the street. It would appear that the listed bars catered to a niche market of smoke-haters that for them it was a big selling point and they were able to replace the displaced smokers. Places like that are what the antis cite as to why it "doesn't effect business". As we are seeing now, this will not work for bars as a whole.

They knew from the mainland that bars will close, business will be way down, and people will get layed off. To the antis this is ok, but they are smart enough to hide the truth as the law is being passed, or maybe dumb enough to believe their own falsehoods.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

And I said previously, according to most States' laws (including Hawai'i), a bar or a club is considered a public place as long as it allows the general public to enter. You wouldn't have problems if the club was private and only allowed members and their guests to enter.

While waiting for the Legislature to repeal or modify the law, why not try to find legal workarounds? Another idea: Has anyone from the pro-smoking lobby thought about contacting the owners of the establishments where a smoking ban was in place before the law was implemented? I'd be really curious to find out why these owners decided to go smoke-free even before being forced to, and I'd also be interested in finding out how much traffic they had prior to the law being implemented. Several other posters have indicated there are at least two of these places on Oahu.

Miulang

Private clubs are not exempt because they would need to have employees. Some bans explicitely exclude private clubs, this one does not.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

There were more than two, I saw a list of over a dozen from a couple of years ago of resturant/bars that did it on their own. That's fine with me, if some people are really bothered by smoke that much they had somewhere to go. Now smokers have nowhere to go accept home or the street. It would appear that the listed bars catered to a niche market of smoke-haters that for them it was a big selling point and they were able to replace the displaced smokers. Places like that are what the antis cite as to why it "doesn't effect business". As we are seeing now, this will not work for bars as a whole.
.

I'd still want to know if they think their traffic will be altered by the fact that the law says all restaurants/bars are supposed to be nonsmoking (even if they look the other way when someone lights up) now. If your hypothesis is correct, then the answer should be yes for those guys too, since their patrons will now have other places that they wouldn't have patronized previously because of the smoke. And as far as the rules about private clubs go, is Hawai'i one of those states that doesn't consider as employees family members working in the establishment?

Miulang

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

I'd still want to know if they think their traffic will be altered by the fact that the law says all restaurants/bars are supposed to be nonsmoking (even if they look the other way when someone lights up) now. If your hypothesis is correct, then the answer should be yes for those guys too, since their patrons will now have other places that they wouldn't have patronized previously because of the smoke. And as far as the rules about private clubs go, is Hawai'i one of those states that doesn't consider as employees family members working in the establishment?

Miulang

The fact is that not many non-bar goers are suddenly going to become barfly lushes just because there is no more smoke. Theory to practice has occurred here and the businesses are taking a bad hit. A banner on a New York bar said it the best after the ban, It said "Non-smokers, where are you?".

I have heard of family only employees on the mainland to evade a ban, but this only works at small "mom and pop" places. As for family members, many larger bars, hostess bars, nite clubs, and strip joints have 12, 15, 20, or more employees to run it effectively. That would require a really big family all devoted to the same place. It's just not practical for them. Would an older parent really what their daughters all working as strippers at their strip club and doing the things that happen when no one is looking. Believe me, I know what happens in Hawaii strip bars.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

And I said previously, according to most States' laws (including Hawai'i), a bar or a club is considered a public place as long as it allows the general public to enter. You wouldn't have problems if the club was private and only allowed members and their guests to enter.

And as I said previously, and AlohaKine has also pointed out, it still doesn't matter with the way the Hawaii law is written. You can't smoke in a "private" club on Oahu if that club employs anyone other than the owner.

I'm with Dick. The bars should have the right to decide how to run their business.

The new law needs to be repealed.

[damontucker]

Re: New smoking ban

Ok... I've now been 6 weeks smoke free...

checking out!

Thank you for this law and more importantly my son for encouraging me to stop!

[Deep Thought]

Re: New smoking ban

Ok... I've now been 6 weeks smoke free...

checking out!

Thank you for this law and more importantly my son for encouraging me to stop!

Agreed. It's the lifestyle that makes quitting so hard, the law helps with that.

[glossyp]

Re: New smoking ban

I caught the tailend of a teaser for tonight's CBS Evening News which will address the "skyrocketing" number of people age 65 and over being diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Fewer smokers, more Alzheimer's? I seriously doubt they'll mention the smoking factor in the report as that would be off-message.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

I have heard of family only employees on the mainland to evade a ban, but this only works at small "mom and pop" places. As for family members, many larger bars, hostess bars, nite clubs, and strip joints have 12, 15, 20, or more employees to run it effectively. That would require a really big family all devoted to the same place. It's just not practical for them. Would an older parent really what their daughters all working as strippers at their strip club and doing the things that happen when no one is looking. Believe me, I know what happens in Hawaii strip bars.

I think some smoke-free strip clubs could exist. Up here, our Deja Vu's and other strip clubs are both smoke free and alcohol free! I've been in one of them, and it's interesting that people still patronize them. All they have are the women on stage and their glasses of soda on the table. All the bad stuff happens outside in the parking lots, where the drug deals go down and cops are busted.

So while the battle is being fought in the Legislature (I don't think this sucker is going to get repealed overnight...how long did it take to repeal the gas cap?), I guess maybe some of those smaller Korean bars should take advantage of the loophole...maybe not have the strippers, but employ all their family members and allow smoking along with your drinks. Bet they'd do landmark business.

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

Re: New smoking ban

Fewer smokers, more Alzheimer's?

I'd be interested in seeing the research that leads to that conclusion, thanks.

[1stwahine]

Re: New smoking ban

While waiting forn Tikiyaki and ladies this past Saturday, I needed to use the restroom. I ventured into one (I not saying where) in Chinatown. The front doors closed. As soon as I entered, I knew why. The patrons and the Bartender was smoking up a storm. Ashtrays all out on the tables in full view in the back. When I asked dem how come because get the New Law? Dey simple said "FXXX Um!"

Auntie Lynn