New smoking ban

[Leo Lakio]

Re: New smoking ban

THANK YOU, D.T.!

I respect and understand how close this issue is to many, many friends, even though I am not a smoker myself. But AlohaKine has leapt over the line with his recent not-so-veiled disrespectful comments.

I would hope this cause can find better representatives.

[dakine]

Re: New smoking ban

Let's go after public farting.

yea. I'll go before it. YOU go after it.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Wow, remember I was just minding my own business peacefully until her group attacked us first last year.

Yes, it's at the ethics commission. Please take a look.
Also, did you know one of my family members is Jewish and he smokes and he would be saddened by discrimination. I respect him very much.
And I do not hate gays, what I'm trying to say is that she is a rather strange person.

Her group demeans people, took away people's dignity, caused people to loose their jobs ( kitchen staff are the first to go when business sucks ), insulted small business people with name calling, tried to ruin a small business with a lawsuit, ect. and now wants to control what people do in their own homes and bedrooms. I can't cope with that. It makes a person upset when someone like her kicks a person when they are down.

I didn't start the fire, I just have to fight it. Peace guys.

[Mililani]

Re: New smoking ban

I didn't start the fire, I just have to fight it. Peace guys.

Hi AlohaKine,

Well, I commend you. Reading the many pages of this thread, I notice you sticking up for what you believe despite the many attacks on you. I'm not going to say that one way is right and the other is not, but I have done some researching as well. Most people do not know how they've been deceived and those who have the opportunity to learn it don't want to hear it. But, can I ask a couple questions? You seem like you could help.

Did you know that there is no scientific proof that second-hand smoke kills? Did you know that there has not been one death due to second hand smoke? If I'm wrong, I would really like to have the proof in my hand... if you know where I can get it, I'd really appreciate it. Not the junk science stuff, okay?

And if it's from a scientist, can he or she not be at all affiliated with any anti-smoker organization? All the readings I've done have scientist saying they "believe" second-hand smoke kills, but I found they were all affilliated with anti-smoker organizations. They get paid by these organizations to fund their personal researches (which have nothing to do with second-hand smoking).

Any help will be greatly appreciated, Alohakine....

Mahalo

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Hi AlohaKine,

Well, I commend you. Reading the many pages of this thread, I notice you sticking up for what you believe despite the many attacks on you. I'm not going to say that one way is right and the other is not, but I have done some researching as well. Most people do not know how they've been deceived and those who have the opportunity to learn it don't want to hear it. But, can I ask a couple questions? You seem like you could help.

Did you know that there is no scientific proof that second-hand smoke kills? Did you know that there has not been one death due to second hand smoke? If I'm wrong, I would really like to have the proof in my hand... if you know where I can get it, I'd really appreciate it. Not the junk science stuff, okay?

And if it's from a scientist, can he or she not be at all affiliated with any anti-smoker organization? All the readings I've done have scientist saying they "believe" second-hand smoke kills, but I found they were all affilliated with anti-smoker organizations. They get paid by these organizations to fund their personal researches (which have nothing to do with second-hand smoking).

Any help will be greatly appreciated, Alohakine....

Mahalo

Thank you and mahalo for your interest and support. I'm used to being grossly outfunded, outnumbered by the big money special interests at hearings, their lawyers, their paid lobbists, slick TV ads, mountains of propaganda, powerful mainland influence, no tobacco industry support ( which we haven't asked for), multiple setbacks, and even the occasional zealot. - So why do I keep trying? Only two things are on our side, courage and the truth.

I've been researching this matter extensively this past year. The thing is that under the flashly media campaign and endless "studies" by these antis on health, business, and popular support there is a dirty underbelly of deceit. I would give up if there wasn't. I'll give you a few examples.

Health; A favorite study used by the antis is the EPA study that claims 3000 innocent non-smokers die each year of second hand smoke. It was found "biased and unscientific" in federal court in 1998. The EPA ( your government ) REFUSED to allow the raw data to be viewed by the public, and had to be sued to disclose it. Why?, because it violated all kinds of scientific norms and standards. The decision was later overtuned on a jurisdition technicality, not because it wasn't baised or unscientific. Americans for Non-Smokers Rights calls this a "victory".

Business; The anti-smoking coalition that passed this law put out in a brochure that the law would have a "neutral or even positive effect" on business. This in the face a numerous bar owners on the mainland screaming in the opposite online. The antis claim that 30% average loss is a "big tobacco myth". Funny that when that owners made formal loss statements and they were averaged it was almost exactly that! 167 bars were choosen at random, half the total in Hawaii. The largest known study of its kind not done by the antis.

Support; The antis payed two pipers and picked the tune to get good numbers for public support from a phone survey. Guess who worded the question? The truth; deep within the Coalition for a Tobacco Free Hawaii website there was a powerpoint slide from a 2005 conference that was shown to their hardcore faithful paying $45 a head, that only 38% of voters supported a smoking ban that included bars. Why do you think they paid these contractors to get a "better" ( 85%)number. Not soon after we let this cat out of the bag, I can't seem to find it on their website anymore.

You don't have to do your own study, just kick in the front door and the whole rotten structure of BS comes crashing down. Interesting to note that second hand smoke claims by these groups were featured on 20/20's "myth busters" recently.

This is just a start, and threads can await the day that I let you all in on the not so honest deeds of our government regarding the explaination and enforcement of the smoke free law.

Anyhow, thanks again and feel free to message me. There is much more of this out there than a person will want to sit down and read on a blog.

[douglas]

Re: New smoking ban

For Mililani, I sure would like to know what sources you are using for your research, and I would take issue with your statement that:

“there is no scientific proof that second-hand smoke kills? Did you know that there has not been one death due to second hand smoke? If I'm wrong, I would really like to have the proof in my hand... if you know where I can get it, I'd really appreciate it. Not the junk science stuff, okay?”

Your logic here is completely askew. Carrying your logic to the extreme, we could conclude that no one ever dies of Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Alzheimer’s or Influenza, because in reality they died of Heart Failure. Or we could say this another way, that Cancer, Stoke, Diabetes, Alzheimer’s and Influenza are the major contributing factors that cause these deaths by Heart Failure. Either way you cut it, people do die of Cancer, Stroke and Secondhand smoke. I’ve read that the number is as high as 35,000 in the U.S. Personally, I think the number is a lot smaller, but never-the-less Secondhand smoke does kill.

I’m also aghast that you believe that most scientific research and studies in the area of smoking and secondhand smoke are conducted by anti-smoker organizations. I would love to see any evidence that you have showing that the U.S. Public Health Services, Harvard Medical School, the California EPA, just to name a few, are affiliated with anti-smoker organizations. These and other organizations engage in scientific research all follow well establish protocols and mythologies. They do the research and report their findings, nothing more and nothing less. What I do know that the big tobacco have spent and continue to spend big $$ for bogus research. You give me enough $$ I’m sure that I can find a scientist that can prove the smoking “cures cancer” or that the holocaust didn’t happen.

The bottom line is the science is what it is, whether or not you agree with it.

Doug

[GeckoGeek]

Re: New smoking ban

These and other organizations engage in scientific research all follow well establish protocols and mythologies.

(Another "too short" message complaint.)

[glossyp]

Re: New smoking ban

“there is no scientific proof that second-hand smoke kills? Did you know that there has not been one death due to second hand smoke? If I'm wrong, I would really like to have the proof in my hand... if you know where I can get it, I'd really appreciate it. Not the junk science stuff, okay?”

The bottom line is the science is what it is, whether or not you agree with it.

Doug

Just one example which I believe was cited earlier in this lengthy thread is the abstract from the WHO study of the relationship between ETS (Environmental Tobacco Smoke) and lung cancer. "CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate no association between childhood exposure to ETS and lung cancer risk. We did find weak evidence of a dose-response relationship between risk of lung cancer and exposure to spousal and workplace ETS. There was no detectable risk after cessation of exposure."
The link to the abstract and the complete study can be found here.

[Mililani]

Re: New smoking ban

For Mililani, I sure would like to know what sources you are using for your research, and I would take issue with your statement that:

“there is no scientific proof that second-hand smoke kills? Did you know that there has not been one death due to second hand smoke? If I'm wrong, I would really like to have the proof in my hand... if you know where I can get it, I'd really appreciate it. Not the junk science stuff, okay?”

You can take issue with anything you want, but until I have concrete evidence in my hand, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

I would love to see any evidence...

I asked first.

The bottom line is the science is what it is, whether or not you agree with it.

Which is part of the point I was trying to make. Because they are "scientists" they speak only FACT? I think not! If they cannot supply straight-forward answers they add mumbo-jumbo reports to confuse the public into thinking they are indeed speaking truth. Their assumption is that the public cannot figure it out on their own. How insulting! Unfortunately, people believe them. (shrug)

And maybe I've become so jaded with their findings because of the many retractions I've seen in my time and how they handle each one.

I could go on and on, but I think this thread is long enough, don't you?

Thanks for writing......

[Serenity]

Re: New smoking ban

The best part of this "new smoking ban"...

Is that I can actually breathe & I don't have to end up being so smelly coming out of Rumors & able to enjoy the food & drinks for once!!.

Knowing the fact (just for health reasons) that I will continue to live for another day.

It is really tough back in the day (for me), before the "smoking ban" came into the law. I use to go to night clubs once in a while, then I would really have the hardest time breathing, my chest would hurt, so I couldn't stand being in that area for a long time without having to hyperventilate & go out to get a breath of fresh air each time (that's why I haven't gone to night clubs since then).

I am so glad that they made that new smoking ban, & knowing that I can fully enjoy myself with my hubby going into night clubs when we can.

Aloha.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

The best part of this "new smoking ban"...

Is that I can actually breathe & I don't have to end up being so smelly coming out of Rumors & able to enjoy the food & drinks for once!!.

Knowing the fact (just for health reasons) that I will continue to live for another day.

It is really tough back in the day (for me), before the "smoking ban" came into the law. I use to go to night clubs once in a while, then I would really have the hardest time breathing, my chest would hurt, so I couldn't stand being in that area for a long time without having to hyperventilate & go out to get a breath of fresh air each time (that's why I haven't gone to night clubs since then).

This is how it is. There are a few bars in my area that allow smoking just like the old days. Their clientele is now 80%-90% smokers with the remainder being non-smokers that see it as no big deal. Nobody really complains about this because there are plenty of options for non-smokers. Tell me way this has to be illegal, some places have made a successful go at non-smoking despite the "illegal" competition? If it was made legal, little would change. The bars that are hurting shouldn't have to make the choice between allowing law braking and going out of business. Why would bars or clubs that had success with non-smoking want to pay good money to get a smoking license?




I am so glad that they made that new smoking ban, & knowing that I can fully enjoy myself with my hubby going into night clubs when we can.

Aloha.

I'm happy for you that you have non-smoking venues to go to. I can tell you that I DON"T go to clubs any more because it is so unconfortable for my friends and I. I miss alot of the fun, always want to leave, have to fight my way outside, stand in the rain like a leper, 10 times a night ,get harassed by cops at the door, fight my way back inside, and when I get back in side, my drink and or seat is taken and it's a pain to refind your friends in the crowd.
All I can smell now without the smoke is sweat and stale beer spills.

Nothing was ever stopping a club or bar from going non-smoking voluntarily and some did including many restuarant-bars and things like Zanzabar's weekly smoke-free Latin nights. There IS a market for this with folks like you, and the Coalition for Tobacco Free Hawaii quietly admitted the key to success with this is simply a little advertising of the fact. Nothing was ever stopping smoking loathers from starting their own smoke free club - nothing. The anti-smoking groups have millions and could have easliy took one or more clubs over for you guys.
I'm all for this idea as long a the MARKET decides. It's a free country.

On the flip side my people have NOWHERE to go to be happy in a legal way and can't even make just one private club for us. 100% and happiness for the non-smokers and 0% for smokers and a new assignment as second class citizens.

And no, I can't just quit - It's too hard and I enjoy it too much. The fact that the concept is being socially engineered on me by involuntary force of law only hardens my resolve to fight back. The "man" isn't going to inflict mind control on me, I call my own shots in life and everyone else should to as long as it is a legal substance.

[Brad White]

Re: New smoking ban

I am also glad to be able to breath air without smoke... I put up with smoke in public places for decades. I dreamed of the day that this would come to pass. I never thought it would. I was held hostage to those smelly fumes for too long. You would come home from a restaurant or a gig and your clothes stank from the smell of cigarettes. I would have to change my clothes and wash my hair to be rid of it. Finally, finally we can go out and breath air free of smoke. For almost 6 decades I had to put up with rude smokers imposing their smelly bad drug habit. Sitting on an airplane with smokers!!! There were times I was ready to go up and pull their dam cigarettes right out of their mouths, I was so fed up with it. Yes I got angry about it. I began calling those organizations to find out what we could do to change it. Things did change... it was slow, but we did it. People have come around. It is like being liberated!!! .. the smokers are dying out.

If you want to smoke, fine... just do it where no one but yourself has to endure it. I am not going to feel sorry for you.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: New smoking ban

I am also glad to be able to breath air without smoke... I put up with smoke in public places for decades. I dreamed of the day that this would come to pass. I never thought it would. I was held hostage to those smelly fumes for too long. You would come home from a restaurant or a gig and your clothes stank from the smell of cigarettes. I would have to change my clothes and wash my hair to be rid of it. Finally, finally we can go out and breath air free of smoke. For almost 6 decades I had to put up with rude smokers imposing their smelly bad drug habit. Sitting on an airplane with smokers!!! There were times I was ready to go up and pull their dam cigarettes right out of their mouths, I was so fed up with it. Yes I got angry about it. I began calling those organizations to find out what we could do to change it. Things did change... it was slow, but we did it. People have come around. It is like being liberated!!! .. the smokers are dying out.

If you want to smoke, fine... just do it where no one but yourself has to endure it. I am not going to feel sorry for you.

What he said. >HIGH FIVE<

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

If you want to smoke, fine... just do it where no one but yourself has to endure it. I am not going to feel sorry for you.

Which is why I wouldn't feel sorry about lighting up and blowing smoke in your face... in public.

It should be up to individual businesses to decide whether or not to allow smoking. Not the government.

I'm not a smoker. But I don't think government should be meddling in free enterprise, either.

Want to get rid of smoking? Get the government to outlaw tobacco. But guess why ($$$$$) they never will...

[Brad White]

Re: New smoking ban

Which is why I wouldn't feel sorry about lighting up and blowing smoke in your face... in public.

You are going to take up smoking just for me?

In this case it is the public that got those changes through... It took years of work to get something done. For once the government responded to the people. The overwhelming majority of people do not want to put up with smoke when they go to work or out for an evening. Believe me if 80% of people want smoke in public places... there would be.

The good thing for you Joe is you are free to take up smoking. The good thing for the rest of us is we don't have to breath it anymore.