New smoking ban

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

A condomium complex is like a community unto itself. It's governed by house rules and bylaws which are drafted and approved by a Board of Directors who are elected by the owners of the individual units. Rentors have no say in what the rules are; they either obey them or get fined or kicked out.

Amendments to the Bylaws are approved or rejected at Annual Meetings of the Homeowners Association. Most of the time, there's very little resistance to rule changes and depending on how active the owners are, some associations have problems getting quorums together for their annual meetings (particularly if the owners don't live in the building themselves).

As the president of a homeowners association, I know sometimes the rules may seem unfair or stupid. But you have to balance the rights of the individual residents with the rights of the community and the owners. In my complex, people can smoke in their units, but there is no smoking in the common areas (hallways, elevator, garage or right outside the front door). Very few residents smoke in my building, and when you walk past a unit of a smoker, you can always tell which one it is, because the smell creeps into the common areas, too.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Slight thread drift -- sorry!

some associations have problems getting quorums together for their annual meetings (particularly if the owners don't live in the building themselves).

When individual owners aren't available for an association's Annual Meeting, they can give their proxy to any other owner or to the Board itself. There is no reason to not have a quorum. Failure to get enough proxies for a quorum clearly indicates an ineffective Board Of Directors.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Slight thread drift -- sorry!

When individual owners aren't available for an association's Annual Meeting, they can give their proxy to any other owner or to the Board itself.

Yes, they can. But they have to DO it.

There is no reason to not have a quorum.

Sure there is. It's called apathy. If the owners don't mail their proxy or show up, there's no quorum.

I live in a small condo. There are no hot issues. Everyone is happy with status quo, so no one cares.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: New smoking ban

It advocates landlords ... banning smokin.

I could go for that one. I've seen the results of a heavy smoker. Can't clean the place. Have to repaint the walls and all.

Given the amount of damage that long term smoking can do, I think it's within the landlord's prerogative to ban it if they wish. I don't think the security deposit can cover everything.

However, the ban should be spelled out up front when the place is shown.

[LikaNui]

Re: Slight thread drift -- sorry!

Sure there is. It's called apathy. If the owners don't mail their proxy or show up, there's no quorum.

I think you may have missed my point, GG, which is that the sitting Board is responsible for contacting the other owners to get their proxies. If there's no quorum of owners, there can be no meeting. Which also means there can be no election of new officers. Doesn't matter if there are any Bylaws issues up for vote or not.
This holds true for any size association, small, medium or large.
Ergo, it's in the Board's own best interest to track the number of proxies before the meeting date and then to make some phone calls to solicit those proxies if it looks like there won't be a quorum. That's especially easy for a small association like yours.
(And in many cases, owners will give their proxy even if they plan on attending in person, in case something comes up at the last minute and they can't attend. If they can, the proxy is automatically rescinded when they sign in at the meeting, and their live vote is operative.)
Make sense now?

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Slight thread drift -- sorry!

Ergo, it's in the Board's own best interest to track the number of proxies before the meeting date and then to make some phone calls to solicit those proxies if it looks like there won't be a quorum.

We let the management company do that. Once we did have a meeting with no quorum. We were close, but one body short.

[LikaNui]

Re: Slight thread drift -- sorry!

We let the management company do that.

Ah. Well, just remember that management companies obviously don't work for free; they charge fees for everything (unless you have some kind of all-inclusive flat rate contract with them).
If you have a Resident Manager on site, the RM could/should help with those proxy phone calls, thus saving some $$$ from the Operations budget, which translates to a lower monthly maintenance fee for the owners.
Every little bit helps.

[tutusue]

Re: Slight thread drift -- sorry!

[...](And in many cases, owners will give their proxy even if they plan on attending in person, in case something comes up at the last minute and they can't attend.[...]

My Makaha condo's operation is a mess right now. Ooooh...I'd love to go into detail but I won't! I strongly encourage all condo owners to attend BoD meetings and the annual meeting...esp. the latter. I will never, ever turn my proxy over to a BoD again. If I'm unable to attend I will give my proxy to an owner I trust who will attend. Things can go awry so insidiously and quickly, folks. Stay on top of how your association and your building are being run.

We let the management company do that. Once we did have a meeting with no quorum. We were close, but one body short.

I highly advise that the management company follows up on the proxies and not the board or anyone else involved in the day to day operation of a condo building.

Well...I certainly added to the off topic drift of this thread, didn't I!!! To add a little touch of 'topic', I don't allow smoking inside my condo and never have due to a health issue.

[douglas]

Re: New smoking ban

My, my, this site has been quiet?? Rumor has it that DOH has Liquor Commission data. From what I heard, third hand of course, the liquor industry is doing better than ever. Even some the bar owneres that lied to legislators that they were going under, made lots of money. Seem that the anti-tobacco group was right after all. Passing the law would have no negative impact on bars. Think its time to send this whole thing to "Myth Busters".

[LikaNui]

Re: New smoking ban

Rumor has it that DOH has Liquor Commission data. From what I heard, third hand of course, the liquor industry is doing better than ever. Even some the bar owneres that lied to legislators that they were going under, made lots of money. Seem that the anti-tobacco group was right after all. Passing the law would have no negative impact on bars. Think its time to send this whole thing to "Myth Busters".

Douglas, it's interesting that you've made just 7 posts in the year since you joined HT, and every single one of them was in this thread. Clearly, you have some kind of agenda.
I also notice that every one of your posts demands proof of whatever you were replying to, so I'm asking you to provide proof of the "rumors" and "third-hand" claims you cite above.
Unless you can provide references, you're just playing the same game that you accuse others of doing.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

My, my, this site has been quiet?? Rumor has it that DOH has Liquor Commission data. From what I heard, third hand of course, the liquor industry is doing better than ever. Even some the bar owneres that lied to legislators that they were going under, made lots of money. Seem that the anti-tobacco group was right after all. Passing the law would have no negative impact on bars. Think its time to send this whole thing to "Myth Busters".

It did have a large negitive impact on some places with heavy smoking clientle and cheating is as high as 95%. From people sitting right next to the door to openly doing it inside. Some study. And that's not all.

Your info comes from who Douglas?

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

KHON-2 had a spot tonight about the ban one year in. Stewart's three bars/ restaurants more or less didn't allow smoking inside before the ban anyways. No kidding that's why things didn't change.

By the way, the rally starts at 11:00am Saturday and goes for a couple hours plus a little kicked back fun after. Febuary's rally was a blast and I look forward to this one. This thing ain't dead, far from it if you are in the know. You should see some of the data - hummmm.

http://www.khon2.com/

This is more the reality for places with heavy smoking patrons. Per a local newspaper.

And the people who are there, by and large, are smokers. When the ban was first implemented, they complied, removing the ashtrays and directing people outside. But after four months, the morning shift bartender had had enough.

“The place was like a morgue,” says Cliff, who agreed to talk to us on condition of anonymity. The reason: he allows his customers to routinely break the law. The bar’s owner also requested that his establishment remain nameless for the same reason.

Cliff is one of the few people involved in the fracas with a personal stake in the outcome, and he claims his business dropped by at least 75 percent. “After that, I begged the owner to let my customers smoke,” he says. “I even offered to pay for any fine we might get out of my own pocket.”

Eventually the owner capitulated. Cliff brought the ashtrays out for the first time in February. “It wasn’t an immediate change,” he says, “but it did start picking up. After two weeks I was up—not back up to original levels—but I was the first person to break one thousand [dollars] in the till since the ban passed.”

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Smoke Free Scavenger hunt? What a joke. Maybe the bars that are hurt by this law can scavenge their remains as they go out of business.

Incidently, I saw numerous violations at of the smoking ban last night at the anti's poster child bars by BOTH the bars and some customers ( no inside smoking however ). None of hoard of antis or the bar did a thing about it. At bar 35 and Indigo, people were smoking less than ten feet from the door and I know they could see this and they did nothing.

People wanting to support freedom of choice are welcome to attend the freedom of smoking choice rally at the state capital on Beretania st. starting at 11:00 am tomorrow. Some special fun stuff is planned also. Favorable bills are still in play for next year and this is needed to help push support further alone. Mahalo

[Zovo]

Re: New smoking ban

This is waaaaaay late in the thread but is a reply to the original post.

As a fairly libertarian type, I feel it is inapporpriate for any state of federal government to outlaw certain things; such as this smoking ban. While I'm a non-smoker and a huge critic of smoking in general, it's not the states place to make these rules.

I would much rather have seen the people in City Hall put more emphasis on a private businesses right to allow or disallow whatever behaviors they wish in and around their businesses. It mihgt be different here, but I know in many cities the rule-making jurisdiction of a private business extends at least to incorporate the sidewalk outside said business.

I find it hard to believe that, if their decisions would be reinforced in a court of law, that many businesses would continue to alow smoking in their establishments; and those which continue to do so would see a drastic decline in their customer-base as a result of customers prefering to do business in establishments with breathable air.

The real problem here is not smoking and the health effects there-of but the fact that private businesses are so afrid to discriminated against anyone, on any grounds, that they feel they need laws to uphold rules they would have made for themselves anyway. If businesses knew that they could make their own rules and "Refuse service to anyone" without fear of legal repercussion (as is their right), I believe this issue could have been rectified in a less authoritarian manner.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Honolulu gross liquor sales from late night "cabaret" bars;
2003 = $34.1 million
2004 = $34.8 million
2005 = $35.1 million
2006 = $36.4 million
2007 = $29.27 million post ban -20% RAW and that's not counting the four months in 2006 that where pre-ban. It's likely it's over 30% and those dollars are also worth 5% less on top of that due to inflation.

Number of stand-lone bars July 2006 to July 2007 ( 2 am's and 4 am's )
2003 = 366
2004 = 357
2005 = 359
2006 = 349 ( ban in November )
2007 = 329 ! A RECORD DECLINE! by July alone. It would even worse save for the fact that some of the hardest hit places are still allowing smoking so they don't go out of business.

The lying sacks of dung at Tobacco Free Hawaii put out a brochure before the ban that the ban would have a "neutral" or even "positive" effect on business. The anti-smoking lobby's credibility and integrity is now at an even more abysmal low.