Electronic Voting in Hawaii

[damontucker]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

Well, you don't exactly pay the government directly when you pay your taxes online, either. You use a credit or debit card (and get charged by the government for that privilege on top of what you owe). The bank that issued your credit/debit card is the one who sends the government your tax money.
The federal government does have encrypted methods of receiving money in large amounts from corporate entities, but not from individual citizens.

Miulang

You can also pay by check routing numbers depending on what online tax service you use... once they have that Data... isn't your checking account number (routing number etc.) out there.

To me... my money is more important than my vote... yet I see myself doing weekly transactions online...and a somewhat hesitant attitude to vote when some of the candidates are not worth getting out and voting for at times.

I don't take my vote as a joke...and voting for people that I don't like doesn't make sense. I understand the "Blank Vote" sends a message... however, I honestly believe if they started online voting... that the voter turn-out would be much larger than it is...

IIRC - UH Manoa does there voting for Candidates online as well as in person.

[Miulang]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

You can also pay by check routing numbers depending on what online tax service you use... once they have that Data... isn't your checking account number (routing number etc.) out there.

Yes it is, but even with a routing number from your checking account, you're not "really" paying the government directly...it's your bank that's electronically transferring the money to the feds. You're just authorizing your bank to send the funds electronically.

Miulang

[Linkmeister]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

Miulang sez:

The one thing I can't quite figure out about Hawai'i voting is why they open "absentee voting" polling places prior to the actual official day of voting? That must be costing the State lots of money that could be used elsewhere. For people who don't want to or can't vote on election day, why not just let them mail in absentee ballots?

I voted early at the Pearlridge Satellite City Hall in the primary this year, and I saw maybe two or three personnel working the polls and machines in there. There's already an absentee ballot procedure in place, and I imagine the early votes are counted by the same people in the same way.

I don't think there's much extra cost to running these sites up to the Saturday before election day.

[damontucker]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

Yes it is, but even with a routing number from your checking account, you're not "really" paying the government directly...it's your bank that's electronically transferring the money to the feds. You're just authorizing your bank to send the funds electronically.

Miulang

So once again... we are relying on Banks to secure our information instead of the government?

Why can't the government secure our votes?

[Miulang]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

Here is some information on online voting (this study from the UK is very interesting and it does cite some American sources, including California and Arizona). I think the possibility is there, but it's a technology that's still not ready for prime time due to security and privacy issues.

Miulang

[damontucker]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

That study was posted in 2001 w/ information that is old and obsolete now.
The California reference was from 2000.

A lot has changed in the digital era...therefore I discredit most of what is said in that article.

The 18 year old voting demographic was 11 - 12 when that study was done.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

Why can't the government secure our votes?

Let's start with the fact that when it comes to your money, it's only a small amount of money. It's not really worth the effort of those who can crack the system. But with your vote, you're talking 4 years of power. A lot more is at stake.

Further more, the ones most interested is the government itself. Trusting the government to secure your vote is like asking Colonel Sanders to babysit your chickens.

The problem with electronic voting is the code used to tally the votes. Code is intangible. It can easily be swapped with malicious code. How could anyone tell? You'd have to go to a ridiculous amount of of verification just to assure the right code is being run - and even then you don't know but what the NSA has somehow circumvented the whole thing.

Paper ballots have bulk. It's harder to switch them without someone noticing. They can be counted and re-counted in a way the average citizen can understand. With e-Voting, you end up trusting a few geeks and hoping they haven't been bought out or been fooled by smarter geeks.

The problems with the paper system can be fixed with better punches. Electronic voting will never be justifiably trusted.

[damontucker]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

Let's start with the fact that when it comes to your money, it's only a small amount of money. It's not really worth the effort of those who can crack the system. But with your vote, you're talking 4 years of power. A lot more is at stake.

Whatever, when your bank holds your trust that was built up because of a life times savings of a few generations passed on down... try and tell me it's only a small amount of money.

Or better yet... tell that to all the people with their own accumulated lifetimes savings in the banks?

If the banks can secure our information...the government should be able to find a way to secure a Vote. With the amount of Banking transactions one does each year compared to the amount of times one votes in a lifetime....there should be a way to secure it.

[blueyecicle]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

Reading all these posts about voting makes me happy Oregon is all MAIL in ballots! It is so easy and convenient!

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

One of the biggest differences between banks and elections is that banking is a closed loop. You get to review the charges and notify the bank if there's a problem. Either the bank or the merchant "eats it" if it's found to be fraud. And it's only money. You can be refunded.

Elections? That's your final answer. No exchanges, no returns. And it's not a closed loop - and for a good reason.

[TuNnL]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

I honestly think a hacker would hack banks before an election thing... If banks can keep such secure transactions... it seems somehow they should be able to make online voting secure.

These are very naïve assumptions on both fronts. Fortunes are made and lost, Mānoa, based on who is in office. Enron and Halliburton are perfect examples.

As far as your assertion that banks keep their transactions secure, I suggest you watch the movie “Swordfish” starring John Travolta and Hugh Jackman. With those ideas fresh in your mind, do your research. Internet Explorer is based 128-bit encryption but the value of this technology is only realized in secure internet protocol (https). Yet somehow, the browser has developed the reputation as one of the least secure methods of doing banking, business, or anything else requiring privacy. ‘Phishing’ is rampant, and online transactions are a cornerstone of the multi-billion dollar identity theft industry.

When was the last time you did some real research (the kind that would take too long using google.com)?

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Electronic Voting in Hawaii

Who is it again who makes the ballot machines we use here in Hawaiʻi? Because I sure hope it's not Diebold. They don't seem to take security that seriously. They had a photo of the keys they use for their machines on their online store -- the keys were already cut, and the photo had enough detail that you could make a working copy from them.