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  • Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Judge rules against Hawaii Superferry
    The Hawaii Superferry will not be allowed to operate during the state's preparation of an environmental assessment of ferry-related improvements at Kahului Harbor, a Maui judge ruled today. Hawaii Superferry President and CEO John Garibaldi has said such a ruling would essentially kill the company's plans for doing business in Hawaii.

  • #2
    Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Das it! Dey going take the SuperFerry some place else.

    Shame on Hawaii!

    Auntie Lynn
    Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
    Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

      I don't understand why the Superferry people didn't bother to do the EIS for all islands it was going to ahead of the boats arrival or when they were being built or even before that.

      It was really arrogant of the Lingle Administration and the Department of Transportation to give the green light on something with such a legal loophole when we are all going to end up paying for a ferry system that is operating in another state (taxpayers subsidized the building of the ships and the improvements to the ports).

      If they had done the EIS and it was cleared, there wouldn't be much argument by opponents and people would be ferried back and forth now.

      Also, the Superferry didn't help themselves by deciding to start early. It was a bad move I think. It probably helped to incite people.

      The whole Superferry thing didn't seem well thought out or planned anyway. There was always a question about the ports not being ready to handle the traffic.

      I grew up in the Seattle area, and on board the state ferries they usually have a police officer from the jurisdiction where the boat is headed in case there is trouble. They even have space on board to detain someone. I never heard anything about that either for the Superferry.

      The only real solution for a ferry system in Hawaii is if it's an official state transportation system, and not a private enterprise because it's not always going to be a money maker. It was bound to fail anyway I think. If it was a state transport system, the Coast Guard would have had no doubts about protecting a public vessel instead of a private one. I think it was weird that a private vessel was protected like a public one. The Coast Guard should send the bill to Superferry. They wouldn't have to if it was public transit.

      The bottom line is that there was plenty of time for all of the items to be addressed before they were going to start, and in the end the Lingle Administration and the DOT cut the red tape for the things that should have already been addressed/fixed/complete and green lighted the project anyway. We are all going to eat the bill for this blunder.
      Last edited by Kittrick; October 9, 2007, 12:24 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

        Originally posted by Kittrick View Post
        I don't understand why the Superferry people didn't bother to do the EIS for all islands it was going to ahead of the boats arrival or when they were being built or even before that.
        As I read it, it was because the State said they didn't have to. As a business, why would they spend the time and money on that process, if the governmental department that has the authority over you says you are in the clear to go ahead?
        Originally posted by Kittrick View Post
        I grew up in the Seattle area
        Oh dear - you shouldn't have said that. Shields up!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

          Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
          As I read it, it was because the State said they didn't have to. As a business, why would they spend the time and money on that process, if the governmental department that has the authority over you says you are in the clear to go ahead?
          Oh dear - you shouldn't have said that. Shields up!
          I read somewhere that the Federal Government guaranteed the money for the Superferry being built provided that the State could assure that there would be no environmental concerns or hangups regarding the ports (sounds like an EIS was needed). The state screwed up big time, and we are going to eat it.

          Why shields up?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

            I'm kind of surprised that Judge Cardoza said no sailing to Kahului until after an EA was completed. I figured he would split the difference and say yes, it could sail, but the speed would have to be greatly reduced, and more had to be done to clean the undercarriages of the cars prior to boarding.

            At this point, I fully expect that the Gov. will force the Legislature into special session. The travesty of it all is that this issue could have been settled during the regular session of the Legislature had not one politician from Maui decided to kill the bill before it could be voted on by the House. Now the taxpayers of the State will have to pay for something that could have been settled months ago, and that would have allowed HSF to sail while the EA was being conducted.

            The hearing just ended (I was watching it on Akaku). The legal team for HSF/DOT will be filing an appeal, but I wonder if they can get through all the paperwork in the next few weeks. Didn't Garibaldi say something like he needed to know for sure by mid-November or he'd have to move the boat out of state?

            And that still leaves the issue of Kaua'i. I think they've got an appeal filed in the HSC, but I don't know when that will be heard.

            Given the huge fiasco that the State created through the misinterpretation of Hawai'i environmental law, I think the Gov's hopes for a Senate seat in 2 years are going the way of the Superferry. She really made a mess of the whole thing even worse by creating that Unified Command on Kaua'i.

            Miulang
            Last edited by Miulang; October 9, 2007, 12:38 PM.
            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

              Originally posted by Kittrick View Post
              The state screwed up big time, and we are going to eat it.
              Sadly, you are probably right.
              Originally posted by Kittrick View Post
              Why shields up?
              You'll have to wait for it...(or go back to read the earlier "chapters" - making a reference to perspectives from outside Hawai`i may not sit well with some participants.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                Sadly, you are probably right.You'll have to wait for it...(or go back to read the earlier "chapters" - making a reference to perspectives from outside Hawai`i may not sit well with some participants.)
                oh ok, I'll get my rubbish can lid ready heh.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                  Originally posted by Kittrick View Post
                  I think it was weird that a private vessel was protected like a public one. The Coast Guard should send the bill to Superferry. They wouldn't have to if it was public transit.
                  Why is it wierd? That's the Coast Guard's role, to protect maritime traffic amongst other things.

                  I'm surprised this thread is reopened. Of course, in a different category.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                    Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                    Why is it wierd? That's the Coast Guard's role, to protect maritime traffic amongst other things.

                    I'm surprised this thread is reopened. Of course, in a different category.
                    I just thought it was weird, because it wasn't until the Superferry sailed to Kauai that they seemed to decide the "security zone" around the Superferry. I know it's just speculation, but I think if this was a state transportation system and not a private vessel it would have been figured out before the ship even sailed. I'm thinking the Coast Guard really didn't know what to do initially because all of this should have been in place by the Superferry and they (Superferry) didn't know what to do either because they weren't ready. It's so stupid that they didn't seem to plan things out or think through all of the possibilities. It's almost like they just said "Hey, let's build some ships and put some people on board and go between the islands. The end."
                    Last edited by Kittrick; October 9, 2007, 12:56 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                      It's disappointing.
                      ___
                      "Be god to each other."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                        Personally, I'd love to see everyone just drop the "shields up" nonsense and stick to the real subject, before this thread gets closed too. Some of us worked very hard to just get this new thread allowed. Please don't ruin it for the rest of us who want to discuss the SuperFerry.

                        Back to the topic.
                        I agree with Miulang in being surprised that the judge totally denied SuperFerry to run at all during the EA.
                        Expect 270 employees to be laid off today or tomorrow.
                        There can also be no doubt that SuperFerry execs have already been talking to other states or even other countries to take Alakai (and the new boat under construction too) out of Hawaii, and HSF has said that likely will be permanent.
                        The world media will have a field day, and Hawaii will be deservedly reviled as a place to do business.
                        .
                        .

                        That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                          Originally posted by Kittrick View Post
                          I just thought it was weird, because it wasn't until the Superferry sailed to Kauai that they seemed to decide the "security zone" around the Superferry. I know it's just speculation, but I think if this was a state transportation system and not a private vessel it would have been figured out before the ship even sailed. I'm thinking the Coast Guard really didn't know what to do initially because all of this should have been in place by the Superferry and they (Superferry) didn't know what to do either because they weren't ready. It's so stupid that they didn't seem to plan things out or think through all of the possibilities. It's almost like they just said "Hey, let's build some ships and put some people on board and go between the islands. The end."
                          Well, I think it's the other way around. It's only when the Kauai protesters approached the issue by jumping into the water did the CG decide to kick in the "security zone". That rule has been in place for some time due to 9/11, just never put into action. Of course, the execution was horrible and a wake up call.


                          Originally posted by InfinityProductions View Post
                          It's disappointing.
                          Agreed!!!!


                          Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
                          Back to the topic.
                          I agree with Miulang in being surprised that the judge totally denied SuperFerry to run at all during the EA.
                          Expect 270 employees to be laid off today or tomorrow.
                          There can also be no doubt that SuperFerry execs have already been talking to other states or even other countries to take Alakai (and the new boat under construction too) out of Hawaii, and HSF has said that likely will be permanent.
                          The world media will have a field day, and Hawaii will be deservedly reviled as a place to do business.
                          Any bets on where it will go? At this point, I would say it's 99% over for the HSF. A company with such operating expenditures simply can't keep hemorrhaging like this.

                          So we are without water transport. go! looks like it's lined up next. Again, same old regressive status quo.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                            Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                            I'm surprised this thread is reopened.
                            Please note who reopened it. Not really surprising, since there was some real news to hash over.
                            Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
                            Some of us worked very hard to just get this new thread allowed.
                            While some were responsible for the previous closure, by severely flaming posters with opposing perspectives, rather than staying on topic. No need for high horses here.
                            Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
                            Expect 270 employees to be laid off today or tomorrow.
                            There can also be no doubt that SuperFerry execs have already been talking to other states or even other countries to take Alakai (and the new boat under construction too) out of Hawaii, and HSF has said that likely will be permanent.
                            The world media will have a field day, and Hawaii will be deservedly reviled as a place to do business.
                            Staying on-topic with you, how much room do you think Garibaldi will give to Lingle and the Legislature, to try to find a solution that will be beneficial to them? Lingle's been a huge supporter of HSF, and you know she's going to ask them to hold off on any dramatic responses - especially if Garibaldi said that mid-November was the cut-off date, another month away. The pressure will be intense on the Legislature now.

                            How many employees does HSF have at present? Those 270 you mention - what percentage of the total HSF workforce is that? What type of workers will those be, do you think, and who will be retained?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                              Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                              Well, I think it's the other way around. It's only when the Kauai protesters approached the issue by jumping into the water did the CG decide to kick in the "security zone". That rule has been in place for some time due to 9/11, just never put into action. Of course, the execution was horrible and a wake up call.




                              Agreed!!!!




                              Any bets on where it will go? At this point, I would say it's 99% over for the HSF. A company with such operating expenditures simply can't keep hemorrhaging like this.

                              So we are without water transport. go! looks like it's lined up next. Again, same old regressive status quo.
                              They should refurbish the inside where the cars go and make it a floating casino so we the taxpayers can make our money back 12 miles (or whatever the international water boundaries are) out to sea. We paid for these boats, and we should at least use them!

                              Comment

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