Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Funny that neither Honolulu newspapers mentioned this little incident involving the HSF barge in Kahului Harbor yesterday afternoon.

Kahului Harbor is notorious for its winter swells. The ones that broke the mooring yesterday were estimated to be around 5 ft, which is nothing. But it's also the reason why surfers like to surf there.

I wouldn't want to be anywhere near Kahului Harbor if there was a tsunami, either, because the harbor is like a giant funnel that amplifies the waves once they get past the breakwater.

No serious damage was reported, although a bollard at berth 2C appeared to have been cracked.

Last December, when swells were much bigger – estimated 10 to 15 feet – ships tugging at their lines ripped four huge bollards off two of the piers.

Steve Pfister, the harbor master, said then that if something is to fail, he would prefer to lose a bollard rather than have it hold and finally drag off a chunk of pier with it.

Pfister was away Thursday, but last year he had called berth 2C “the worst place to park” when the water in the harbor is surging hard.

Hawaii Superferry officials deferred comment to the state, which owns the barge.

Ishikawa said a bollard sheared off Pier 2 Wednesday as well.

“The swells weren’t that huge,” he said.

He said the state would monitor the situation but he could not say what the event implied, if anything, for daily operations. The company said it would announce its plans for resumption of service today.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Just now saw on KITV news that the SuperFerry will start runs to Maui on December 1.
One-way fares will be $29 through December 20, then will go up to $39.
No decision yet on a startup date for Kauai.
I couldn't find that info on any websites yet, including SuperFerry's own website or KITV's site. But assuming KITV's report is true, then...

WHOOPEE!!!!!!!!

EDIT: Okay, the Advertiser has it now at this link, which includes:

The Hawaii Superferry will resume service to Maui on Dec. 1 with $29 special one-way fares from Dec. 1 to Dec. 20.
The company said a date for commencing service to and from Kaua'i has not yet been determined.
"We have already begun community outreach efforts on Kaua'i." said Hawaii Superferry CEO John Garibaldi. "We will make our decision about when we commence our Kauai service once that process is completed."
(...)
The Superferry will leave Honolulu daily at 6:30 a.m. and arrive in Kahului at 9:30 a.m. It will depart Kahului at 11 a.m. and arrive in Honolulu at 2 p.m.
The Superferry said after its initial $29 fare it will offer $39 one-way fares beginning Dec. 21 and through March 12, 2008.
The company said reservations will open at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow. These special inaugural fares will only be available on an advance-purchase basis and reservations must be made online through www.HawaiiSuperferry.com or through the call center at 877-HI-FERRY (877-443-3779). The call center is open daily from 6 a.m. to 7 p.m. HST.
The company said a reduced passenger vehicle fare will also be offered at $55 each way. Motorcycles, scooters, and mopeds are $35. All promotional fares are subject to applicable Hawai'i taxes and fees. The fuel surcharge has been waived for these promotional fares.
The company said customers who have already purchased tickets at a higher fare for travel Dec. 1, 2007 - March 12, 2008, will automatically be refunded the difference of the special fares.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Funny that neither Honolulu newspapers mentioned this little incident involving the HSF barge in Kahului Harbor yesterday afternoon.

Kahului Harbor is notorious for its winter swells. The ones that broke the mooring yesterday were estimated to be around 5 ft, which is nothing. But it's also the reason why surfers like to surf there.

I wouldn't want to be anywhere near Kahului Harbor if there was a tsunami, either, because the harbor is like a giant funnel that amplifies the waves once they get past the breakwater.

Actually, it was in the Advertiser yesterday.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...401356789.html

It sounds to me Kahului Harbor needs a major revision to deal with swells. Perhaps a huge wave break that crosses in front of the harbor opening.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Actually, it was in the Advertiser yesterday.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...401356789.html

It sounds to me Kahului Harbor needs a major revision to deal with swells. Perhaps a huge wave break that crosses in front of the harbor opening.

It would be odd for the State to spend millions to fix a problem that has plagued all harbor users for years just because of HSF, don't you think?

And those 3 1/2 month-long special introductory fares? Wonder if they notified the PUC about the changes? Their tariff specifically states that they have to have that fuel surcharge included in their ticket prices. Apparently the PUC dinged HSF for the $5 fares, too because they just arbitrarily chose that price without notifying or getting approval from the PUC.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

It would be odd for the State to spend millions to fix a problem that has plagued all harbor users for years just because of HSF, don't you think?

And those 3 1/2 month-long special introductory fares? Wonder if they notified the PUC about the changes? Their tariff specifically states that they have to have that fuel surcharge included in their ticket prices. Apparently the PUC dinged HSF for the $5 fares, too because they just arbitrarily chose that price without notifying or getting approval from the PUC.

What's odd? That the HSF's barge experienced the same problem that many others have experienced and the problem should be fixed? It's not a fix specifically for the HSF. In fact, you're the only one who's trying to make some sort of correlation between what the barge experienced and the harbor needing a fix as something HSF specific.

I'm sure the HSF has decided they can deal with a ding regarding their intro fares. It certainly seems like you can't let it go that the HSF will be able to resume service. If anything, the faster they burn their money, the quicker they will go under, shouldn't that make you happy?

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

What's odd? That the HSF's barge experienced the same problem that many others have experienced and the problem should be fixed? It's not a fix specifically for the HSF. In fact, you're the only one who's trying to make some sort of correlation between what the barge experienced and the harbor needing a fix as something HSF specific.

I'm sure the HSF has decided they can deal with a ding regarding their intro fares. It certainly seems like you can't let it go that the HSF will be able to resume service. If anything, the faster they burn their money, the quicker they will go under, shouldn't that make you happy?

If it was another NCL ship losing its mooring, or a YB barge, I seriously doubt the State would consider fixing it. What I am concerned about is the DOT will try another quick fix by forcing the YB barges to move out of pier 2B, where the barge currently is moored while 2C is fixed. If critical supplies that are needed by Maui are displaced or delayed because of HSF, there will be serious repercussions.

While they continue to burn through their money, I'd also like to make sure no one gets hurt and everything is run according to the current laws.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

The sheer audacity of some people just leaves me... speechless.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

If it was another NCL ship losing its mooring, or a YB barge, I seriously doubt the State would consider fixing it. What I am concerned about is the DOT will try another quick fix by forcing the YB barges to move out of pier 2B, where the barge currently is moored while 2C is fixed. If critical supplies that are needed by Maui are displaced or delayed because of HSF, there will be serious repercussions.

While they continue to burn through their money, I'd also like to make sure no one gets hurt and everything is run according to the current laws.

Does it really matter what serves as a catalyst to a fix for Kahului Harbor? Not unless you feel that swells in a harbor should be considered just fine and dandy. With all the commotion over HSF, there is no way the state will even attempt to switch piers. The damage was superficial.

A question I like to ask, are you against an additional wave break that could resolve the swell issue? Do you think in this day and age, surfers and cargo ships should be allowed in the same harbor?

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Does it really matter what serves as a catalyst to a fix for Kahului Harbor? Not unless you feel that swells in a harbor should be considered just fine and dandy. With all the commotion over HSF, there is no way the state will even attempt to switch piers. The damage was superficial.

A question I like to ask, are you against an additional wave break that could resolve the swell issue? Do you think in this day and age, surfers and cargo ships should be allowed in the same harbor?

They're probably going to have to build up that west breakwater (like you and I discussed much earlier) in order to move the cruise ships and HSF away from the "working" part of the harbor. For security and safety reasons, the mix of passengers from both HSF and NCL and the heavy equipment used by YB, Matson and PASHA is less than ideal. If they build out that side of the harbor where the public boat launch is, the swells won't be as severe. Dredging the harbor some more in order to accomplish that might even reduce the size of the swells so no other mitigation is required.

There's supposed to be a storm coming in to the islands this weekend with high seas. So it'll be interesting to see if the DOT has already replaced the cracked bollard and secured the barge better this time if there are large winter swells.

However, the BEST solution would be to move all passenger operations completely away from Kahului Harbor and build a second commercial port. Mala Wharf on the Lahaina side has a harbor that is deep enough already (it was used during WW2 to land sailors on cruisers) and is far away enough from both Lahaina Harbor and the Kaanapali area where it wouldn't impact traffic. Even if HSF had to slow way down to use Mala because it is smack dab in the middle of the NMS, the shorter distance between Oahu and the west side would probably mean the transit time would still equal the time it would take to go to Kahului or might even be a little less.

Of course, any long term solution is going to cost the state beaucoup bux. But it's required now. I really don't think a big tent and porta potties is an adequate ferry terminal, and the traffic pattern was not thought out very well. It would have been better to let the ferry cars drive on Ala Luina and exit/enter at Hobron, where the cruise ship passengers enter and exit now.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

What the Honolulu newspapers are not reporting about the barge breaking loose in Kahului Harbor.

Now there have been quotes from 2 "experts" on Kahului Harbor---the harbormaster and the Coast Guard---who both say that placement of that barge at the end of pier 2C is, to put it politely, "not very wise". So if the Coast Guard and the harbormaster, in consultation with DOT about the barge placement this past summer, recommended that it not be placed at the end of Pier 2C, why did DOT still insist on putting it there? Is this another case of the DOT being so myopic that they neglected to consider possible consequences...again?

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

What the Honolulu newspapers are not reporting about the barge breaking loose in Kahului Harbor.

Funny, that article comes off nowhere near as direly doom and gloom as your impression of it. My impression is that you hope folks won't actually read the links you provide, but this is just one of numerous times that you only report tiny snippets from articles that don't support your SuperFerry hatred.
You somehow forgot to quote this from that same article:

In recent years, there have been three incident reports at Kahului Harbor about barges that were involved in collisions or near misses. None resulted in serious damage, oil spills or interference with port operations.

Can you please show us where (if) you whined and moaned about those three incidents? Surely you're as concerned about other barges besides just the barge from the other day... which, by the way, the state owns, not SuperFerry.

And you also somehow forgot to quote this from that same article:

Dave Ward, president of the Hawaiian Canoe Club, said his club has taken a neutral stance about the Superferry, but “safety is a big concern” for recreational users of the harbor.
“I am sure the DOT will check out alternatives and have a strong safety policy,” Ward said.

Now, you've said a million times that the canoe clubs are rabidly against the SuperFerry, but here, in an article you yourself provided but hoped we wouldn't read, we find that they have taken NO position for or against the SuperFerry. And as a matter of fact, most canoe teams in the state have said they WANT to use the SuperFerry to travel to competitions on other islands and to be able to take their own canoes.
Apparently someone forgot to relay that news to Seattle.
This all reminds me of your earlier claim that Maui farmers hated the SuperFerry, but I provided links that showed they actively and vocally WANT SuperFerry.
Oh, and don't forget to pretend that you never saw this reply. What a convenient way to ignore those pesky little facts.

[oceanpacific]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Lika, that's why I ignore these "lame" rantings from 2500 miles away. A case of half-truths and selective "evidence." No credibility at all.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

What the Honolulu newspapers are not reporting about the barge breaking loose in Kahului Harbor.

Now there have been quotes from 2 "experts" on Kahului Harbor---the harbormaster and the Coast Guard---who both say that placement of that barge at the end of pier 2C is, to put it politely, "not very wise". So if the Coast Guard and the harbormaster, in consultation with DOT about the barge placement this past summer, recommended that it not be placed at the end of Pier 2C, why did DOT still insist on putting it there? Is this another case of the DOT being so myopic that they neglected to consider possible consequences...again?

2C might not be the best but then, can the barge be placed at 2B? Won't you then think YB is being further squeezed out? Or what if YB's new larger barges use 2C? Would that be a great idea? I still fall back on the solution that another breakwater is needed at the entrance to prevent swells to be entering into the harbor to begin with.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

2C might not be the best but then, can the barge be placed at 2B? Won't you then think YB is being further squeezed out? Or what if YB's new larger barges use 2C? Would that be a great idea? I still fall back on the solution that another breakwater is needed at the entrance to prevent swells to be entering into the harbor to begin with.

The newest ro/ro barge that YB uses takes up about 2/3 of Pier 2B, so it is longer than Pier 2 (where 2C is) is wide. And I'm not sure the harbormaster or the Coast Guard would want YB to tie up where 2C is anyway because of the surges. The smaller YB barges take up about half of Pier 2B. Not much wiggle room on Pier 2B now. Here's the current YB schedule for Kahhului Harbor. Don't know if the largest barge comes to Maui 3x a week or not because I think from Maui it goes to Hilo, so smaller barges may come some of the time, too.

If they got rid of NCL then there would be more than enough room for everybody. NCL is currently in port 6 days a week; that will go down to 4 days a week when one of the NCL boats is taken off the run and heads for Europe next year.

Another breakwater where? Outside the channel to the harbor itself? I think they would have to dredge as well as create a breakwater to do that. If they're going to do that, they might as well develop the west side of the harbor where the public boat launch is and dredge over there to give HSF and NCL passengers a real passenger terminal and adequate space for parking.

The problem, of course, is finding the money to do the improvements. The Master Plan for Kahului Harbor in 2030 is supposed to be looking at these alternatives. I would prefer moving NCL and HSF completely away from Kahului Harbor, keep Kahului Harbor as the working harbor for Matson, YB and PASHA and have a second deep water harbor on Maui for all passenger activities. It's crazy that even Kauai has more than one place where large boats can dock. (Nawiliwili and Port Allen). If Kahului Harbor is destroyed by a tsunami or other disaster, Maui will truly be SOL as far as being able to get critical supplies by ocean. Lahaina is too shallow for the barges. Mala Wharf is a possibility since it used to be used by the Navy during WW2 to let sailors off from the destroyers for shore leave so the water should be deep enough to allow ferries to dock there. But the pier itself really dilapidated and neglected and has to be rehabbed to be safe. And Maui can't really wait until 2030 for the harbor improvements.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

A breakwater off the mouth of the harbor, effectively blocking incoming waves.

What's more expensive? Developing Kahului Harbor or building out a second harbor for the island?

And worst case scenario if indeed Kahului Harbor is destroyed, Mulberry harbours.