supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

[katw2323]

Pro or against hawaiian sovereignty?

I am writing a paper on Hawaiian sovereignmty and I wanted to get some feedback from those who feel strongly on this subject. I am having to write pros and cons for the paper, and i do not want to step on anyones toes here either. Could any of you help me on this. Thanks you. You can email me directly at jackrussel23@hotmail.com

[1stwahine]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

R E S P E C T ! plain and simple...odda wise you in trouble big time!

[sinjin]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

Hawaii has NEVER legally become a territory of the US, let alone a State. Make it Right! Restore us to the status of independent and sovereign Nation. Free Hawaii - NOW!

In a freed Hawaii what would likely happen to "locals" with no Hawaiian blood? How about haoles born there or long time residents? I assume haole mainlanders would likely be prohibited from moving there in future but what about non-haole mainlanders or foreigners?

[kimo55]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

In a freed Hawaii what would likely happen to "locals" with no Hawaiian blood? How about haoles born there or long time residents? I assume haole mainlanders would likely be prohibited from moving there in future but what about non-haole mainlanders or foreigners?

yaknow, I will never claim to have the answers re; sovereignty. It is a very complex issue. with no clearcut definitive answers. that quote was from that site. I raise these "issues" to get people thinking. And talking about the subjects. and think about what their true feelings are. and maybe they think they should learn more about it... (just like the pope is dead thing. Look how people elucidate... or voice their convictions...)
I will invite, to this board, the various heads or resentatives of the groups from the links I listed, (and others on my site) to share their mana'o and see what they feel about these questions...

[sinjin]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

Not meant to convey anything but if I could share a little story my wife told me of late and ask a question:

My wife belongs to an online mommy group. A military wife stationed on Oahu related her story about going to the park regularly and seeing a "local" family there whose children played with hers. When she thought to ask if a "play-date" might be arranged between their kids she was snubbed and told absolutely not, "we are Hawaiian Sovereignty supporters".

How does not allowing children to play together further HS?

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

In a freed Hawaii what would likely happen to "locals" with no Hawaiian blood? How about haoles born there or long time residents? I assume haole mainlanders would likely be prohibited from moving there in future but what about non-haole mainlanders or foreigners?

Who knows? There are so many examples in the world of really scary and violent changes when the colonizing power moves out of a former colony -- some of the African countries come to mind, where the non-blacks (both white and Indians) who've lived in the country for generations are forced to flee and their property is appropriated, legally or not, by others. Closer to home, there's all the turmoil in Fiji and the uncertainty that the Indian-Fijian population there still suffers under. I can only hope that if Hawai'i ever takes back sovereignty from the USA, those in power will consider these examples and choose their course compassionately.

[kimo55]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

How does not allowing children to play together further HS?

good question. this either was a solitary, individual case, or the guidelines for a particular sovereignty group. dunno. would be intriguing to find out.

[pzarquon]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

You'll find all kinds, as with anywhere else, and in addition to the fact that there are some intensely committed advocates of complete and unequivocal Hawaiian independence, there is a long history of animosity between Hawaiian groups and the military. The military mom in your story probably wandered into the perfect storm of unfriendliness, unfortunately. True, working to educate others rather than preemptively shunning them might be a more productive approach in the long run, but there's a lot of underlying (and understandable) hostility and frustration out there.

I'm part Hawaiian (got my OHA card for when the revolution comes), but I'm actually a moderate, which in some circles makes me either misguided or a traitor. And, believe it or not, there are some native Hawaiians who are not interested in sovereignty issues at all. So I'd only urge caution in characterizing the views of a group too broadly.

[kimo55]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

I'm part Hawaiian (got my OHA card for when the revolution comes), but I'm actually a moderate, which in some circles makes me either misguided or a traitor.

no, you will be chosen as the diplomat for the settlement proceedings and various powwows.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

easy...marry a Hawaiian and transfer all your land holdings to that spouse so you can stay provided you apply for the Hawaiian version of the green card and I don't mean American Express.

[Miulang]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

I'm sure the government and the DoD would have a big time worry if Hawai'i became a sovereign nation. The DOD would have to pay the kanaka maoli all kinds of biiiiiig kala to keep Pearl Harbor and Schofield active, because then they would have to pay rent. Ha! Then it would be just like Panama City or Gitmo...All the non Native people who thought they bought their houselots "fee simple" might become leaseholders. I seriously doubt the US government would allow the kanaka maoli true sovereignty...their "compromise" is the Akaka Bill, whose passaage would then treat the kanaka maoli like Native American tribes. I dunno...most of the federally recognized tribes are all into casinos and gambling, not going back to the way they used to live before. Would the same thing happen to the kanaka maoli? Would Hawai'i become another Principality of Monaco? Or would it evolve into another Las Vegas? (might as well...plenty Hawai'i people have moved to LV to escape the high prices of Hawai'i).

Miulang

[sinjin]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

easy...marry a Hawaiian and transfer all your land holdings to that spouse so you can stay provided you apply for the Hawaiian version of the green card and I don't mean American Express.

I asked, my wife said no.

[pzarquon]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

I'm sure the government and the DoD would have a big time worry if Hawai'i became a sovereign nation. The DOD would have to pay the kanaka maoli all kinds of biiiiiig kala to keep Pearl Harbor and Schofield active, because then they would have to pay rent. Ha!

I've not read anyone say this before, but I honestly think that locals vastly overestimate Hawaii's value to the military. In terms of invested infrastructure, you bet your sweet bippy giving it up would hurt. But in terms of strategtic importance? I think our time in the "sweet spot" of federal warmaking pork has long since passed.

Not only has technology and aircraft range pretty much made the Pacific no different from any other geographical expanse, but as the nature of conflict changes from inter-national to intra-regional (i.e. instead of country X against country Y, it's group X within countries Y and Z), having heavily fortified bases or even "staging grounds" in one location is really not that important.

If even, in the independence advocates' wildest fantasies, the military were pushed out (and that would take some doing), the U.S. wouldn't be particularly harmed. Even with the increasingly cool reception the U.S. military has been having in some southeast Asian locations, there are still plenty of small countries (and south Pacific islands) that'd be happy to host a mobile strike force or two in exchange for the economic boost it would bring.

I know those who hate the military would love to see them pull out of Hawaii entirely, to hell with the real economic impact it would have on real families, Hawaiians included. But when I see people whose livelihoods depend, even if indirectly, on the military say, "They need us, so screw 'em, it's not like they're going anywhere," I have to think, "Don't be so sure."

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

True. Look at the Philippines. The US military just pulled out and left, and how's Subic Bay doing these days anyway? Not so good from what I've heard. Wham bam, thank you ma'am.

[Miulang]

Re: supporting hawaiian sovereignty?

I know those who hate the military would love to see them pull out of Hawaii entirely, to hell with the real economic impact it would have on real families, Hawaiians included. But when I see people whose livelihoods depend, even if indirectly, on the military say, "They need us, so screw 'em, it's not like they're going anywhere," I have to think, "Don't be so sure."

That's why your local government has to stop thinking of the DoD as a cash cow that is never gonna go away. What would replace it if the Navy and Marines folded up their tents and left town? Where would all those civilian workers be able to find jobs? You can't really rely on tourism, either, because that's kind of cyclical...depends on which part of the world is booming economically and which part is going bust. With less money coming in to the State coffers from the military and tourism, how would the state be able to feed all its people if the farmlands are all being swallowed up by development?

I did a little research on kalo for an article I submitted to the April edition of the enewsletter for www.alohaworld.com. Did you know, for instance, that a productive l'oi could yield 3-5 tons of taro in a year? As a byproduct, the wetland lo'is can also be used to raise fish and opa'e. Hard work, but every part of the taro plant can be used. Those kanaka maoli were on to something.

Miulang