Lost geckos

[memorylane]

These were two of the many along Waikiki strip in 04, none of which were there this year.
Finally did see this one


Why were they all taken away? Anyone know?

And the huge white cross on Kole Kole pass that was supposed to be marking where the Japanese passed thru on their way to bomb Pearl Harbor. Anyone have any pictures of it anytime in the span of 1982 thru when it was removed?
We could see it from bedroom windows on Schofield Barracks but only seem to have one shot of it in which my now deceased brother is waving from the top of it (due to how you could climb into it).

[memorylane]

Re: Lost gecko's

Another one there in 04 but not now.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Lost gecko's

Many communities do this sort of fundraising event, where local organizations decorate a similar object, then they are auctioned off for charity. Some information on the "Geckos In Paradise" event is at http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...dise---oct.cfm

[memorylane]

Re: Lost gecko's

Yes, they do this in my town with buffalo's but they remain at the business whom I suppose bought and chose the decoration style.
Thanks a bunch for the article!! Very informative but I still wish the gecko's (and white cross) were still there.

[scrivener]

Re: Lost gecko's

There are still many of these geckos (no apostrophe, thank you very much) around town, just not as many. You can see one in front of the Hawaii State Art Museum. There's one on the campus of a private school I'm familiar with, too. You can't expect such a thing to remain in that many places for so long. It's been eight years.

As for the cross, why a cross? Would you be as happy if it were some other marker? A cross seems like a weird symbol for such a location.

[lensperson]

Re: Lost gecko's

Those little creatures were skeptical as humans moved into the territory those
little eyes had surveyed for countless years

Each eye functions on its own.
The connection between the right brain and the left brain is
a neural equivalent to a giant router, if you will.
The human brain was "Dual Boot" from the start.

[scrivener]

Re: Lost gecko's

Gecko's range from 1.6 cm to 60 cm.
With no real eyelids, they lick their eyeballs to keep them clean.

Cold-bloodedness has it's advantages
But how nice it is not to run for the shade when the sun's out.
Geico can save you 10% or more on car insurance.

[lensperson]

Re: Lost gecko's

Thanks for that
I'll give myself an uppercut !

[Serenity]

Re: Lost gecko's

.
Geico can save you 10% or more on car insurance.

Thanks. NOW I know. , & when I get a car, I'll definitely check it out.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Lost gecko's

There are still many of these geckos (no apostrophe, thank you very much) around town, just not as many. You can see one in front of the Hawaii State Art Museum. There's one on the campus of a private school I'm familiar with, too. You can't expect such a thing to remain in that many places for so long. It's been eight years.

As for the cross, why a cross? Would you be as happy if it were some other marker? A cross seems like a weird symbol for such a location.

White crosses have been often used to mark military dead. In France somewhere there is a field of white crosses marking allied dead invading the Nazi invasion of Europe.

Plus, a significant number of US sailors and soldiers were likely Christian. Makes sense in that light.

Certainly you wouldn't mark it with a 'rising sun' symbol....

Nowadays we are so obsessive with our 'separation of church and state,' that we don't allow any Christian symbols on State or Federal property.

But, it's OK to build a mosque next to ground zero for 9/11, so I hear. It's a different sort of thing: private vs. public property. I do not anticipate such will be welcome.

[memorylane]

Re: Lost gecko's

As for the cross, why a cross? Would you be as happy if it were some other marker? A cross seems like a weird symbol for such a location.

No, it wouldn't have mattered but that's what was there and the crap reason's for it's removal disgusted me to be quite blunt.

[scrivener]

Re: Lost gecko's

White crosses have been often used to mark military dead. In France somewhere there is a field of white crosses marking allied dead invading the Nazi invasion of Europe.

Plus, a significant number of US sailors and soldiers were likely Christian. Makes sense in that light.

I'm well aware of crosses marking military dead. You don't even have to go to France to see it. Our own military cemeteries have similar markings. Since nobody's grave is marked on the Kolekole Pass site, I'm hoping you'll agree that this is not a good analogy.

Certainly you wouldn't mark it with a 'rising sun' symbol....

Perhaps not, but why go to that extreme? There are a hundred ways to mark a site of historical significance. The spot on the USS Missouri where the war was brought to an end is marked with a velvet rope and a spot on the deck. The USS Arizona, which serves as an enormous grave itself, is marked with a white monument built upon the wreckage. The sculpture at the top of the steps at Punchbowl is not of a religious icon, but of Lady Liberty.

Would you agree with me that these religiously neutral markings are fitting tributes for the events they commemorate? Would you be offended if some similar marking were placed on the site where the cross used to be?

Nowadays we are so obsessive with our 'separation of church and state,' that we don't allow any Christian symbols on State or Federal property.

This is actually untrue. There are Christian symbols on state and federal property all over the place, but in places appropriate for religious markings. You know that area where Moanalua Center is, near the Navy-Marine golf course? It's all federal property. There are at least five churches on that land, all of them with some kind of religious marking. Individual graves at Punchbowl are marked with the religious symbolism of the family's choice: you'll see stars of David, crosses, and multiple other markings.

Does it not make sense to you that locations with no religious significance, such as Halawa Valley, where the Camp Smith cross used to be, and Kolekole Pass, where memorylane's favorite cross used to be, should be free of markings that seem to favor one religion over another? The Camp Smith cross came down because a federal court ruled that it promoted one religion, which the court said is a violation of our constitution. My question for you, which I'm going to restate near the end of this post, is what would be your preferred recourse if you think the government should in fact let the cross be there? The options appear to be either (a) put the cross back and violate our constitution, or (b) change the laws so that it's legal for our government to favor and promote one religion over another.

But, it's OK to build a mosque next to ground zero for 9/11, so I hear. It's a different sort of thing: private vs. public property. I do not anticipate such will be welcome.

You point out the flaw in your own argument here. Private vs. public property. Whether it's "OK" or not to put the mosque there is up to you, but whether or not it's LEGAL is not even debatable right now.

No, it wouldn't have mattered but that's what was there and the crap reason's for it's removal disgusted me to be quite blunt.

You are entitled to your feelings, of course, but I was happy to see that cross come down, and I'm entitled to mine.

Rather than argue about whether or not the cross should be there, then, I would like to propose that you, memorylane, and you, Kaonohi, negotiate with me to see if we can come up with something that works for all three of us citizens.

I am offended by the large, blatant display of one religious symbol on government property over another. I think our government needs to be extremely careful about this, because I think government is a non-religious institution in this country. I'm aware that many people think it shouldn't be, but as it stands right now, that's what our country is (and has been, for a very long time).

You are offended by either the removal of a childhood memory or by the people who brought the lawsuit (the Kolekole Pass cross was never ordered taken down by the court, you'll remember: it was brought down when the Army decided it was too expensive to maintain the cross and to defend its existence in the lawsuit), or perhaps the very concept of separation of church and state is what offends you.

As we are, all three of us, presumably U.S. citizens. your sensitivities are as important and valid as mine. Is there some solution we can come up with that would satisfy all three of us? If you're unwilling to compromise--if only a cross will do--then I guess our discussion is over, and my side (the side of the US Constitution) wins. But I'm willing to negotiate.

I suggest first that the Camp Smith and Kolekole Pass properties are of no religious significance whatsoever, to anyone. If we would like to mark them in some way, we should mark them with something visible and non-religious.

I'll concede Kaonohi's point, and agree that a rising sun would be inappropriate. Now what will you concede?

[memorylane]

Re: Lost gecko's

It probably wouldn't matter what was suggested, eventually costs of maintenance would begin to take place. Otherwise I would have suggested something along the lines of the St. Louis Arch maybe.
I was both "bummed" at the cross removal because my brother and I had crawled inside and I only have this one photo where he can just barely be seen waving from the top. He is deceased since 95.
It was also "depressing" to return in 04 to find a stinking microwave or cellphone tower nearly in the same spot.
As telling by my username of memorylane, I am happier thinking of times gone by instead of the depressing crap that is ever present now.
I couldn't give a rat's okole about the group that wanted it removed as that and the thing's they do and stand for are decisions, etc. that they will have to answer to someday I suppose.

[scrivener]

Re: Lost gecko's

Well, when you come back home in a few years, you'll feel better about the cell phone tower, because now IT will be a memory from your past.
As for "answering to" someone eventually, do you really think God cares about a cross on a military installation? The judgment will be more about accounting for the ways we treat each other, not the things we do to public property. And there are Christians who are strenuously for the separation of church and state (you're looking at one now), so in those cases there won't be any accounting because they've already been covered and redeemed.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Lost gecko's

... do you really think God cares about a cross on a military installation? The judgment will be more about accounting for the ways we treat each other, not the things we do to public property.

If I believed in a god, I would think that said being would be angrier about our overall militant behavior as a species than about how we memorialize physical spaces with graven images.
(Which is another way of saying something very similar to scrivener's comment.)