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  • #46
    Re: Homeless solutions

    Originally posted by D'Alani View Post
    You failed to mention that the article also brought attention to the desecration and trash that the people who were sleeping there were doing.
    I didn't mention anything like that because who actually knows when and who damaged/desecrated such things? If you have proof please present it, otherwise, to automatically assume it's due to homeless people shows where too many are in regards to the homeless problem. Go to most any graveyard and you'll probably see similar damage, usually done by roaming vandals. Plus, let's be sensible, very few homeless are into pointless damage in an area that will bring heat on them when they want to stay there without hassles.
    The problems at this cemetary are due to City ignorance and neglect of their responsibilities, they didn't maintain it, allowing it to be attractive to vandals and homeless persons.
    But thank you for reading and contributing.
    Last edited by Ron Whitfield; February 26, 2013, 09:56 AM.
    https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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    • #47
      Re: Homeless solutions

      Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
      The problems at this cemetary are due to City ignorance and neglect of their responsibilities, they didn't maintain it,
      Removal of some of the larger trees were necessary because roots were tearing apart some grave sites. So on one hand, you condemn the city for not maintaining the cemetery. But at the same time, you criticize a project designed to help preserve the cemetary.

      Do make up your mind.

      And frankly speaking, the preservation of the cemetery takes far greater precedence over your aesthetic taste. It is the final resting place for the remains of hundreds of Hawaiians, not a recreational park for your personal enjoyment.
      This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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      • #48
        Re: Homeless solutions

        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
        Removal of some of the larger trees were necessary because roots were tearing apart some grave sites. So on one hand, you condemn the city for not maintaining the cemetery. But at the same time, you criticize a project designed to help preserve the cemetary.
        Thanx for talking out your snipey ass, again. But, if you have proof that every tree needed to go, let's have it.
        The City, as stated, neglected their duties towards cemetary for decades, that's why it had grown out of control. And along with draconian attitudes re the homeless towards exposing the area lead to chopping all the trees down, which seems much too extreme. Yes, I condemn ham-handed measures that leave things worse off than need be.

        On a positive note, Kalihi's Cedar Church, one of the few local groups that stresses civic aid towards the disadvantaged/homeless has stepped up again in hopes of guiding some folks into a better life by proposing a farm and kim chee factory to be employed by homeless individuals http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?acti...1&id=193491811
        They also have property that provides a 'tent village' for safe camping at nite.

        On a much more sour note, NPR ran a short segment yesterday concerning the homeless situation which included comments by the disgraced, displaced, former, and useless Homeless Czar, Mark Alexander, in which he again shows his dark side when it comes to intelligent or even compassionate thinking of those on the streets. Instead of any truly helpful ideas this guy just keeps coming up with ways to hassle and deprive those who are down by saying he wants to "keep them moving", as in NO REST FOR THE WEARY. Thanx, jerk!

        Plus, The City is continuing to try forcing tent dwellers off sidewalks by claiming it's a safety issue, when of course there is scant evidence of any such thing. It's all about people endlessly complaining of merely seeing them, yet typically none of them are doing much (if anything) to help those that need help. http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?acti...y&id=193491721
        Last edited by Ron Whitfield; February 27, 2013, 11:38 AM.
        https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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        • #49
          Re: Homeless solutions

          I just thought I would add something concerning the three cemeteries bordered by School, Kapalama, and Alani Streeets. Not all of the trees were chopped down, there still are a few on the School St. side, the ones that were on Kapalama were cut down a few of years ago and there never was any on the Alani St. side. All three cemeteries were neglected for decades. Only in the last decade or so have the Kaahumanu and Paea? cemeteries have been cleaned and upkept. Not too many people even knew that there were three separate cemeteries.

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          • #50
            Re: Homeless solutions

            Good to know there are some trees left, thanx for the info, D'.
            Yes, they had to do some sluething to get to the property facts after all these years, and you'd think cemetaries would have been given higher consideration but there are probably many others just as hidden and forgotten. Kinda sad.
            https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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            • #51
              Re: Homeless solutions

              Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
              Thanx for talking out your snipey ass, again.
              It's this kind of childish name-calling from you that is a sure-fire indication that I'm right on the topic. Thanks for the admission, Ron.

              Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
              But, if you have proof that every tree needed to go, let's have it.
              As D'Alani already stated, not every tree in that cemetery was removed. Of course, that fact would be obvious to anyone who actually took the time to look at the cemetery in question rather than making knee-jerk, self-contradictory posts.

              As to the "proof" that numerous trees were damaging certain gravesites, the Advertiser cites that fact from a university study that was made.
              Last edited by Frankie's Market; February 27, 2013, 08:17 PM.
              This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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              • #52
                Re: Homeless solutions

                Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                As to the "proof" that numerous trees were damaging certain gravesites, the Advertiser cites that fact from a university study that was made.
                No, it doesn't cite such a "fact". The closest the story comes to saying anything about trees damaging gravesites is this:
                University students spent weeks carefully recording every name and the condition of every grave for the 1987 report. The students identified 993 graves in the state's portion of Puea and 168 in the city's portion for a total of 1,161. Many more are likely unidentified because they are covered over by dirt or torn apart by tree roots.
                The last sentence does not seem to be attributed to the 1987 report, and in any case does not report a "fact" about "numerous trees".
                Greg

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                • #53
                  Re: Homeless solutions

                  Originally posted by GregLee View Post
                  The last sentence does not seem to be attributed to the 1987 report, and in any case does not report a "fact" about "numerous trees".
                  Fair enough, then. The statement that tree roots were damaging graves came from an Advertiser article written by James Gonser.

                  And judging by the research and interviews that were conducted to write that article, it sure doesn't sound to me like Mr. Gonser was making up stuff out of thin air. But you're certainly free to think otherwise, if you want.
                  Last edited by Frankie's Market; February 28, 2013, 06:43 AM.
                  This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Homeless solutions

                    Oh waiter, there's an asshole in my soup!
                    Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                    It's this kind of childish name-calling from you that is a sure-fire indication that I'm right on the topic. Thanks for the admission, Ron.
                    As D'Alani already stated, not every tree in that cemetery was removed. Of course, that fact would be obvious to anyone who actually took the time to look at the cemetery in question rather than making knee-jerk, self-contradictory posts.
                    As to the "proof" that numerous trees were damaging certain gravesites, the Advertiser cites that fact from a university study that was made.
                    https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                    • #55
                      Re: Homeless solutions

                      With the DC BS coming down the pike tomorrow, it look's like we'll have a few thousand more entire families out of their homes and onto the streets since there's no where near enuf shelter space for this sudden mass influx http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?acti...y&id=193763381

                      The meager number of success stories in Hawaii showing the homeless 'movin' on up' will never compete with the usual numbers of new homeless each year, especially when you have inevitable moments like the above.

                      Strict homeless solutions now!
                      https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                      • #56
                        Re: Homeless solutions

                        The Weekly http://honoluluweekly.com/diary/2013/02/city-sidewalks/ has a mention of anti-homeless/sidewalk clutter bills 2,6,7 passing a 1st reading, and is a short but interesting read from various viewpoints. It's not suprising there are errant comments by complainers such as Glen Elliot who too typically decried how it's the Thomas Square homeless who are responsible for the sad conditiond there, when of course they are not the worst offenders but The City who've ignored maintaining/improving the park for decades and finally threw in the towel long ago by shutting down the fountain and locking the bathrooms at nite, to basically let the place decay.

                        I've recently seen many photos from the Bannick Collection (State Archives) that show how nice the town of Honolulu used to look 50 years ago with no litter to be seen, no stained and stinking sidewalks from every source possible, no bums flaked out in everybody's way, the town looked well cared for and positively sharp in appearance. That hasn't been the case for much too long, how worthlessly disgusting our appointed public servants have been in allowing such a gem to simply rot along with it's public.
                        https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                        • #57
                          Re: Homeless solutions

                          Ya think maybe the homeless then were less bold in staking claims in prominent locations back then? Surely, you're not suggesting we had no homeless then, or had a smaller percentage of homeless then, are you?
                          May I always be found beneath your contempt.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Homeless solutions

                            One cannot compare Honolulu of 50 years ago to today, it was a completely different city,everthing about it was different. There were probably half the amount of people and really more than half the amount of buildings. The Ilikai wasn't even built yet, Ala Moana Park was barely 10 years old, Magic Island was still in the making, and I believe the Aloha Tower was still the tallest building downtown. I personally never saw any "homeless" people sleeping on the streets or on public property. Of course I was only 16 years old at the time and may have not seen a lot of things.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Homeless solutions

                              Originally posted by salmoned View Post
                              Ya think maybe the homeless then were less bold in staking claims in prominent locations back then?

                              Surely, you're not suggesting we had no homeless then, or had a smaller percentage of homeless then, are you?
                              Sure, plus physical violence in public is not as bold as then, there was no shortage of those willing to clean the sidewalks in their own ways.

                              Surely, I am saying we had much less, both in sight and 'hidden', and D's comment seems to back the first up quite well.

                              Manawela Boy was written long ago about those with no $ or home or shame, and Aala Park was the place to go. Not sure how locals cared for those down and out back then but I doubt it was better than now, at least there are currently organized assists, even if largely used as a scam.
                              https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                              • #60
                                Re: Homeless solutions

                                Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                                Oh waiter, there's an asshole in my soup!
                                Whoa! You usually don't get this worked up, Ron. Does this problem personally affect you or something?

                                Originally posted by D'Alani View Post
                                One cannot compare Honolulu of 50 years ago to today, it was a completely different city,everthing about it was different. There were probably half the amount of people and really more than half the amount of buildings. The Ilikai wasn't even built yet, Ala Moana Park was barely 10 years old, Magic Island was still in the making, and I believe the Aloha Tower was still the tallest building downtown. I personally never saw any "homeless" people sleeping on the streets or on public property. Of course I was only 16 years old at the time and may have not seen a lot of things.
                                You had people who were down and out back then. Back in the "good ole days" when zoning laws and building codes weren't as strict, there were more tenements and flop houses. Not just in Chinatown, like you saw in so many of the original Hawaii Five-0 episodes. But they were scattered around all over the island. I can personally recall several in Kalihi and Kaka'ako. These places mostly housed single people, but there were some families crammed in as well. Not the most pleasant places in the world to live, with drug and criminal activity lurking around the corner. While folks who lived in such conditions were not homeless, it was hardly an idyllic existence. You could say it was one step above being homeless. The gradual razing of those old tenements perhaps has contributed to the population now living on the street.
                                This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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