Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

[kahalabrah]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

.

kahalabrah: " i've even made friends with kamaaina haoles in hawaii who don't like mainland haoles and validate my feelings!!!"

In a general way that is true for me also. There is definitely a stereotype that has been, is well earned and deserved by ("white" men and women) haole from the U.S. mainland that is distinct to such haole. Not all those haole fit the stereotype but I agree that the majority do. That is not to say that I am prejudiced to the point of not keeping open the window of opporitunity for such haole to prove that he, she or they is not of that stereotype; but the vast majority of the time the individual haole inadvertently reveals his or her capacity to be open minded or not with regard to the indigenous culture of these islands; to historical acts and inactions and their consequences in these islands; and the U.S. responsibility for redress of U.S. injustice in these islands.

applause waioli kai for your honest revelations. that's all i'm asking for. a little validation and intelligent discussion. not confrontation. i know racism is a loaded gun, but its good to get it all out in the open to confront the darkside.
you said: "Not all those haole fit the stereotype but I agree that the majority do."

that's exactly what i've been saying, but all i seem to get is a beating from most people on this forum.

[scrivener]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

that's exactly what i've been saying, but all i seem to get is a beating from most people on this forum.

That's because you are upset that "most haoles are racist" for thinking that "most Asians are [whatever]" and don't see that when you say "most haoles," you're guilty of the same racism you claim to be a victim of. You asked Glen not to speak on behalf of everyone on HawaiiThreads, since he doesn't know what everyone here thinks; yet you insist that "most haoles" this or "most haoles" that. Just as Glen doesn't know what's in the hearts of "all" HawaiiThreads readers, you don't know what's in the hearts of "most" haoles, because you haven't met most of them.

You're only taking a beating because you insist that "most haoles" are anything and that's a racist stereotype.

Waioli Kai, you're doing the same thing when you insist that haoles "prove" to you that they're not racists. Why don't you let them prove to you that they are before you assume anything?

[1stwahine]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

Come, Auntie give you or ANYONE BIG CYBER HONI HONI!

Aloha!

Auntie Lynn

No Pilikia...We one OHANA!!!!

[kahalabrah]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

That's because you are upset that "most haoles are racist" for thinking that "most Asians are [whatever]" and don't see that when you say "most haoles," you're guilty of the same racism you claim to be a victim of. You asked Kimo not to speak on behalf of everyone on HawaiiThreads, since he doesn't know what everyone here thinks; yet you insist that "most haoles" this or "most haoles" that. Just as Kimo doesn't know what's in the hearts of "all" HawaiiThreads readers, you don't know what's in the hearts of "most" haoles, because you haven't met most of them.

You're only taking a beating because you insist that "most haoles" are anything and that's a racist stereotype.

Waioli Kai, you're doing the same thing when you insist that haoles "prove" to you that they're not racists. Why don't you let them prove to you that they are before you assume anything?

okay scrivener
can i make a minor but important distinction? most of the mainland haoles i have befriended and have gotten to know, some over 15 yrs, are racist to the core. sure, they are my friends and to a certain degree i really don't know why they are my friends given this disturbing trait of theirs. if eliminated every racist haole from my circle of friends, quite frankly, i'd have no friends!!

when glen (not kimo) insisted that nobody will agree with me, he was wrong. what i am saying is different. i am relating that during my lifetime i have met mostly mean-spirited and racist whites. that is all i am trying to say. that does not even mean that most whites are "mean-spirited and racist." this isn't hard science where the numbers speak for themselves. this is my life's experience dealing with mainland whites. all it means is that through my slanted eyes, i have met mostly "mean-spirited....." you get my point.

i think that if you grew up in my shoes, in all white communities, schools, corporations, don't you think you would have "walked a mile in my moccasins?"

[kimo55]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

jeezuss..
imagine yer seething anger if..
someone said:
"aaaah c'mon, all ya see is mean spirited haoles though yer slanted eyes..."

[Miulang]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

Kahalabrah, You're in Hawai'i now. You said previously that you felt better living in Hawai'i. As long as you're not planning to move back to the Mainland, you can put your hostility about Mainland haoles off to the side. Most of the haoles who are born in Hawai'i or who live in Hawai'i for any length of time (other than some FOB tourists from the Mainland) are very easy to get along with. As D'Alani said, his and my generation were brought up knowing it was OK to dislike certain individuals, but it was not OK to make generalizations about a whole ethnic group of people on the basis of a bad relationship with one representative of that group. And I obviously don't have anything against all haoles, because my kane is a haole from New Jersey.

Since you said you have haole (probably locally born and raised) employees, please treat them the way you would like to be treated yourself. In other words, don't do to them that which was done to you up here; otherwise, you will have wasted all that money talking to counselors.

Can you redirect the anger you feel into something positive so that it doesn't eat you up inside and make you physically ill? You said you got along with your haole neighbors. That's a great start. I hope that the longer you are away from the people who you feel victimized you on the Mainland, the less victimized you will feel in Hawai'i.

Miulang

[scrivener]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

i am relating that during my lifetime i have met mostly mean-spirited and racist whites. that is all i am trying to say.

Then please say that. There's a huge difference between what you said here and what you said earlier. In the same spirit, I'd like you to know that the overwhelming majority of mainland haoles I have known has been loving, open, warm, friendly, and accepting. No, I didn't grow up on the mainland, but I lived there for three years and watched my father's German-Italian-Irish family embrace my Japanese mother, and I have seen nothing but positivity toward her from our neighbors on the mainland and the friends of my father's family. Sure, nobody on that side of the family can pronounce my mom's name, but then she can't really pronounce their last name either, and it happens to be her last name, too (it's Dwyer, which you can imagine is a challenge for a Japanese tongue -- heck, it gets mispronounced by people of ALL ethnic backgrounds). So walk a mile in my kamaboko slippers or at least try to hear yourself the way the rest of us are hearing you. It sounds like several people here are trying to sympathize with you, and some of us have acknowledged that were we treated as you were, we might feel the same way; however, it sounds too as if you don't want to acknowledge that perhaps through some weird twist of fate, you got unlucky and just met all the wrong people.

Kahalabrah, you're hurt. We get that. We can see that. Just try to consider what some of us are saying, and maybe you'll hurt a little less. In that spirit, I won't join the chorus of people who wish you'd stop. Just, you know. Try to hear what people are saying here. It might help.

[helen]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

Although in real life I employ haoles, have haole clients and business associates, I readily confide in you that I have a problem with haoles, and I keep this confidential. Why is this so bad I ask? I don't hurt anyone, instead it is I who has been traumatized from a former lifetime of racism by haoles. I have been through countless hours of therapy with, believe it or not, a very sympathetic, haole therapist. I have "let go" of a lot of anger and bitterness....but not all.

So you have a history of being traumatized by the racism. Is it happening now?

I am not looking for a confrontation. Can't I get a little compassion from some people for my honesty ? Please try and put yourself in my position. That's all.

More than you can imagine. During my life I got picked on because of my ethnic background, religion, lack of religion, what island I come from, what town on that island I come from, my parent's economic background, gender, choice of profession, educational background, gender id/sexual orientation and what I do for a hobby.

[scrivener]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

During my life I got picked on because of my ethnic background, religion, lack of religion, what island I come from, what town on that island I come from, my parent's economic background, gender, choice of profession, educational background, gender id/sexual orientation and what I do for a hobby.

Well, that last one is understandable. Isn't it true that model rocketeers eat their young?

Seriously, Helen: Picked on because of model rockets? Give me names and numbers, and I'll go take care of 'em.

[kahalabrah]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

Then please say that. There's a huge difference between what you said here and what you said earlier. In the same spirit, I'd like you to know that the overwhelming majority of mainland haoles I have known has been loving, open, warm, friendly, and accepting. No, I didn't grow up on the mainland, but I lived there for three years and watched my father's German-Italian-Irish family embrace my Japanese mother, and I have seen nothing but positivity toward her from our neighbors on the mainland and the friends of my father's family. So walk a mile in my kamaboko slippers or at least try to hear yourself the way the rest of us are hearing you. It sounds like several people here are trying to sympathize with you, and some of us have acknowledged that were we treated as you were, we might feel the same way; however, it sounds too as if you don't want to acknowledge that perhaps through some weird twist of fate, you got unlucky and just met all the wrong people.

Kahalabrah, you're hurt. We get that. We can see that. Just try to consider what some of us are saying, and maybe you'll hurt a little less. In that spirit, I won't join the chorus of people who wish you'd stop. Just, you know. Try to hear what people are saying here. It might help.

fair enough scrivener. it is people like you, my haole therapist and a very scant few other nice haoles that give me hope in dealing with my "haole issues."

well, thanks again for your kind words scrivener and others who were supportive. good night.
k

[pzarquon]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

Say you have a general distrust of clowns. You happened to grow up in Clowntown, where nearly everyone was a clown, and lots of them had a bad attitude. They'd spray you with seltzer water. They'd make fun of your lack of a red, squishy nose. Clown girls wouldn't give you the time of day.

Today, even though you escaped Clowntown, you get a bad feeling every time you see a clown.

Might some people empathize or feel bad for the trauma you suffered at the hands of a few bad clowns? Sure.

Does that mean people are also going to sign on to your proposition that most clowns are therefore seltzer-spraying red-nose supremacists? No.

There are some seriously ignorant and cruel clowns out there, Kahalabrah. But you've got to stop taking your frustrations out on every clown you see on the street, in the boardroom, or on television.

Er... and if anyone misses the humor in this post, please replace every instance of "clown" above with "firefighter" or "teddybear" or something.

[scrivener]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

I actually have no problem with clowns or haoles, but I have a problem with therapists. Isn't it in Kahalabrah's therapist's best interest to be sympathetic? I mean, where would he be if he weren't sympathetic? Minus one paying client, that's where.

[MadAzza]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

all i can say is that on the mainland, most haoles are mean-spirited and racist toward asians and minorities.

Wow, you've actually *met* most mainland haoles? That's a lot of how-de-do! You must really get around.

[Miulang]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

I actually have no problem with clowns or haoles, but I have a problem with therapists. Isn't it in Kahalabrah's therapist's best interest to be sympathetic? I mean, where would he be if he weren't sympathetic? Minus one paying client, that's where.

Not all therapists are sympathetic to their clients. Some can be downright confrontational, if they feel it's in the best interest of their client. Most of the time, though, therapists---in my personal experience---are just a mirror. They help people get "unstuck" by asking questions and making the client think through things. I've never met a therapist yet you has actually told me what to do when I came to them with a problem. Heh. Maybe that's the problem, eh?

In fact, a long time ago, I went to a therapist because I thought I needed assistance in thinking out a problem. At the end of the initial session, the therapist told me she didn't need to see me anymore. When I asked why, she said, "You're too normal." Now that kind of advice I didn't need at the time. Of course, she was a social worker at the HMO I was a member of and it only cost me $5 to see her...Kinda reminded me of Lucy and the lemonade stand. And I think I got what I paid for that time!

Miulang

[scrivener]

Re: Am I the only one to admit that I have a problem with haoles?

I've never met a therapist yet you has actually told me what to do when I came to them with a problem. Heh. Maybe that's the problem, eh?

Listen, Miulang. I'll take a fourth of whatever you're paying them, and I'll tell you what to do. Just put the money in my PayPal account and we'll set up a time and place.

On the other hand, do I really want to know what's going on up there?