Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

[kimo55]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

a good example;
this is something aquired, asborbed, lived... "learned" NOT from reading and studying. pidgin is not a language you pick up from some online course.

It's an ingrained part of island lifestyle. just the fact you have Hawaii kai pidgin, which is different from Kailua pidgin, which is different from Waianae side pidgin, which is different from Kailua pidgin in da 60's, which is...
etc.
shows it ain't a thing you should expect people to define online. or beome local as soon as possible by reading the 2 textbooks. which were never meant to imply "learn from dees kine"

cheekin skeen is nothing. it don't exist.
How bout that?!

You may find out experiencially what it is if yer here for a while. But it ain't sumpin you that can be defined by a few words.

and if it can, it ain't.

[Vanguard]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

For one thing, Hawai'i appears to have a great Christian population. It's also one of the few states in the USA to have "Good Friday" as an official holiday. That being said, based on my personal experiences, I believe Hawaii to be just as diverse spiritually as it is racially. There's also decent religious tolerance coupled with that diversity. I've met Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus. The majority were spiritual, mellow people who don't get extreme.

On the other hand, some do get preachy, and when I was on UHM campus, I was actively preached to by Jehovah's Witnesses and Reverend Moon people, as well as multiple Hare Krishna sects.

[Bard]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

On the other hand, some do get preachy, and when I was on UHM campus, I was actively preached to by Jehovah's Witnesses and Reverend Moon people, as well as multiple Hare Krishna sects.

Well, nothin' new there... Those types have been on pretty much every university campus I've ever been to.

this is something aquired, asborbed, lived... "learned" NOT from reading and studying. pidgin is not a language you pick up from some online course.

I can appreciate that. I think that's true of all languages to some degree. No amount of studying Japanese really prepared me to try using it when I was in Japan. My friends couldn't understand me and I could barely understand them -- they spoke too fast, I had a bad accent, and they had lots of local slang and sayings. Pidgin probably more so because it's so local there.

Doesn't stop my scholarly instincts from trying though

[pzarquon]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

I wouldn't minimize the Christian influence, either. Despite Hawaii's political reputation, I've found its people to be more conservative than you'd think, and the Christian element almost as pervasive as it is elsewhere in the U.S. Sure, there's a lot of diversity within the Christian sect, and I love how there are Korean churches and Samoan services and the like. But even several Native Hawaiian groups embrace Christianity, we still invoke the Christian god everywhere in government, Hawaii soundly rejected same-sex marriage largely on the basis of Christian mores, and frankly, there's a lot of evangelizing and recruiting going on.

When I was a kid, Mormons were especially persistent (I don't get this impression today). As a college student at UH, New Hope and its "young, hip church" counterparts were everywhere, and quite aggressive. Even as an adult, I get invited to Christian church events all the time. I know these friends and colleagues mean well -- it's part of their faith, and Cthulu knows my soul probably needs saving -- but these experiences are quite similar to those on the mainland.

Given our multicultural population and immigrant history, it's wonderful that there are plenty of non-Christians all over and dozens of Buddhist temples. But Christianity -- in its many flavors -- is a significant presence, absolutely.

I think the difference, as has been noted, is just that there isn't massive domination by Christian denominations, and that there's a very congenial relationship between Christians and other religions and faiths. There's competition, but not conflict, and sometimes I feel as if the only folks who seem to get it from all sides are those that haven't picked a side. Saying I'm an atheist doesn't satisfy folks trying to bring me into the fold, but telling them I'm Buddhist does. As long as I believe something, they'll leave me alone.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

Doesn't stop my scholarly instincts from trying though

I'd suggest you use those instincts to learn how to understand pidgin, but not to try to speak it. Kimo's right on the mark with his comment - it's a transactional language, one that you either grew up in or you didn't. Unlike your experiences with Nihongo, where you may gain a little respect for at least trying to speak it (even if poorly), you won't get the same response to "trying" pidgin. Reactions can range from someone being offended (that you are making fun of them) to a sock in the eye.
But if you can at least understand what's being said, you can keep up in a conversation, and people won't have to stop for you to catch up (which some will do...but not for long.)

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

As a college student at UH, New Hope and its "young, hip church" counterparts were everywhere, and quite aggressive.

Are they less so today in Hawai`i? I've noticed that New Hope has been sending its ministers from Hawai`i to West Coast cities, establishing churches here and there now, many of them targeting the communities of former Island residents.

Reverse missionaries? I can think of many aspects of Hawaiian spirituality that I would prefer to have take root on the continent instead.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

Saying I'm an atheist doesn't satisfy folks trying to bring me into the fold, but telling them I'm Buddhist does. As long as I believe something, they'll leave me alone.

Didn't we discuss creating a "church of kimo55" a few months back? (Too lazy to seek the thread, sorry.) I'd still be up for that. He's already established himself in a role as gatekeeper; I think we could build on that foundation.

[tikiyaki]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

as opposed to the miainland where there IS conflict and complaints as to differences among people.

The Mainland is very big, and not ALL of it is that way, but a certain supposed "leader of the free world" has certainly made a point to draw a deeper line in the sand, which to me, is infuriating.
So now the US appears almost as fanatical as some of the Muslim extremists that we're battling, because our president refers to god and jesus way too much in his speeches, when we are in fact, supposed to have a separation of chuch and state thing in our constitution.
Perfect example...the subject of Stem Cell Research.

[Bard]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

I'd suggest you use those instincts to learn how to understand pidgin, but not to try to speak it.

I understand. That was what I was getting at. There are parts of it I would be comfortable with using, but I suspect that trying to "speak in Pidgin" would just annoy or irritate people. Certainly unless some significant immersion has happened.

I happen to think it's lovely to listen to though. I've been enjoying reading stories on hawaiistories.com.

I actually feel much the same way about Japanese. I doubt I'll ever be able to speak it reasonably. I can learn "Tokyo Japanese" but it will always put a distance between me and a native speaker because I don't feel comfortable dropping down into less formal words and grammar. Had a pen-pal chastize me about that once actually. "Why are you speaking so formally to me still! We're friends now!"

BTW nice on the location name in your profile

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

ho man, how to answer this one. Since Pzarquon did a fine job at the overall spirit-scape across Hawai'i, I'll take a personal stab at this one.

I have a poly-lens.

I can appreciate my science lens and see the wisdom of evolution.

I can appreciate my Hawaiian side and understand that I descend from a genealogy stemming into antiquity. Today, not many peoples on the planet have that, or they separate the eldest elements of their history into a compartment known as "myth". I hate that, as if the old wisdom is all beta and today we are of a higher evolved state.

I can appreciate the humanist traditions from those on the other side of the planet. Likewise, any ancient wisdom that has been preserved throughout millenia is thereby holy to me. Survival throughout history = holiness. I love reading the bible and find many aspects of progressive Christianity deeply profound and moving. The politics of Christianity is bizarre to me, but I get it that nothing can be practiced outside of a culture (for practice among people fosters culture), so I try my best to respect different faiths. As far as the bible goes (and this might be tricky for some to wrap their heads around), I wince a bit when I think of the new testament, because I believe that the Jewish bible is that personal, historical, good/bad/ugly, genealogical record of those peoples of the middle east (which makes it holy to me), and I would feel cheeky to say the least if someone decided to make addendums to my people's holy recordings, say that they've got the answers *right here* and then tell my people that we are headed to hell because we aren't digging on their new&improved, updated&expanded revisions of those holy writings. Then we die across the planet in progroms and stuff. I still find JC an incredible person who broke "OT" laws left and right and was willing to die for it all. But I get it that Paul is the father of modern day Christianity with his writings and works.

I don't worry about my soul, but I believe that I have one. I think when I die I will be part of that which our kupuna makes up. The dirt. The sky. The carbon in the sea. The ozone. The mystical, magical, scientifically-documented composite of giving back to the next generation to be photosythesized into the next nutritious bite. I find peace in this. It reminds me to live a good life, to be a good mom, wife, daughter, granddaughter, member of the family, member of the community, and good person with whom to work...speaking of....

[Miulang]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

My experiences growing up in Hawai'i made me appreciate spirituality and the many many flavors of religion that exist.

My classmates and playmates in the neighborhood were basically all Catholics, so I really really wanted to be Catholic. Plus, they got excused from class every Tuesday afternoon to attend catechism, which us heathens didn't (we went to symphony concerts instead). I wanted so much to be a Catholic that I went to the library, borrowed a book on Catholic liturgy and memorized the Hail Mary until I could rattle through that as fast as my Catholic friends could. Back when I was in elementary school, prayers had not been outlawed yet (thank you Madeline Murray O'Hare! ) and this one teacher I had, Mrs. Anderson, would make us say the Lord's Prayer every morning.

In the meantime, we lived up the street from a Buddhist church (St. Anthony was down the road further away). My mother got it in her head that my bro and me had to have the heathen tamed out of us, so she got my Dad to drag both of us to Buddhist services on Sunday. She told us both that she didn't expect that we would ever become devout Buddhists, and when we came of age we could go to any church we wanted, but while she had any say in it, we HAD to go get some organized religion. She said this, of course, while adamantly refusing to attend church with us (she would always say that she worshipped St. Mattress). Every Easter Sunday, though, my Dad would take my bro and me down to Baldwin High School, where they used to have Easter Sunrise Services. He could sing "Onward Christian Soldiers" with the best Christians in attendance. Mom would tease him and tell him since he went to Buddhist church every Sunday and Easter Sunrise services every year, that he was just trying to get into Heaven any way he could!

He had a funny religious upbringing, too. Somebody in the family told me once that my Dad's parents had wanted him to become a Buddhist minister. So what did they do? They sent him to Mid Pacific Institute, which is a parochial school and where I guess he got his grounding in Christianity. In the meantime, most of his family I think were followers of various Buddhist sects.

When I left Hawai'i for college, the small private school I chose put me in contact with Jews, Muslims, Christians, Quakers, you name it. I was invited to Passover seders, celebrated Kwanzaa and Christmas. In Utah, I was surrounded by the LDS Church, but I also had Unitarian, and New Age religion friends. In Boston, I was adopted by a Jewish family and also learned about kabala on my own. In Seattle, I have Italian (like from Rome) friends, and I've gone to Christmas and Easter Mass. I go to bon odori and am fascinated with the similarities of all the major religions. One of these days, I'd like to find a good comparative religion program that examines the similarities of all the great religions of the world. And because of what's going on in the Middle East right now, I am starting to learn more about the origins of the Quran. And even though many people think that Islam is diametrically opposed to Christianity, it really isn't and neither is better than the other. They are both just guidelines for living honorable lives, as are the teachings of all the other religions.

Miulang

[Bard]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

Thanks for sharing. I have a much less interesting religious background myself, I guess. My dad was an agnostic and my mom tried to raise me LDS; it didn't really stick. I'm mostly agnostic myself. I did get to visit the big Mormon temple in SLC though, that was fun. Most of my family are the standard southern Baptist, Methodist, etc. I've fallen in and out with various nature-based religious groups over time (currently half way in I guess). I'm bigger on the philosophy and the spirituality than the dogma in any religion. I like Buddhism a lot in that regard. I like the original philosophy of Christianity too (speaking of JC here, not necessarily modern versions). I respect the various indigenous beliefs of the world.

I'm guessing I'll do OK.

Edit: I should also say that this is one of those areas where I have a lot of natural respect for my "ancestral piko". I like studying the old stories and beliefs of the Irish, Scottish, and English, which is most of me. They were not always the nicest people but they were never boring.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

I should also say that this is one of those areas where I have a lot of natural respect for my "ancestral piko". I like studying the old stories and beliefs of the Irish, Scottish, and English, which is most of me. They were not always the nicest people but they were never boring.

You are among many peoples scattered all over the world who do so. Its morph seems to touch many spiritual piko in the forms of wiccan, new age, and other neo-twists on old wisdom. I admit to having had to learn how to increase my ability to appreciate these movements. The "self" thing disturbs me, but I attribute that to being an island person with island thinking. The more I learn about Greco/Roman/Mesopotamian thinking, the more I understand that these are based on thousands of years' worth of cultural mores. That, too, is a piko.

[Vanguard]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

I think Hawai`i has a considerable Mormon population. There's a BYU campus -- I think in Laie, next to the Polynesian Cultural Center, also owned by Mormons (nifty place to take visiting family members). I realize you're not Mormon anymore, but you may meet others who were raised as such :P

[1stwahine]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

I think Hawai`i has a considerable Mormon population. There's a BYU campus :P

Adherents.com - Religion by Location
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Auntie Lynn