Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

[kimo55]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

Pesky Mormons.

you are too kind.

[1stwahine]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

Leo Lakio, You are such a nice guy! I will humbly back down and give my hanai son a break from my wrath today.heheheh

Time to go kaukau!

Poi, Sardines in oil with chile pepper.
One Hot Pastele!

MAHALO

Auntie Lynn

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

To a Mormon, Family is only important within the sect. Outsiders are not welcome, be they family or not.

That hasn't been my experience. I've spent plenty of time attending celebrations and special events in the lives of several Mormon families, and they were friendly and welcoming. I'm sure I would not be permitted to enter Temple, though I have been in several of their church buildings, in different states.

But I wouldn't make this a general statement, and say "all Mormons are welcoming people." Just as with any faith, there will be all types of behavior amongst the members.

Also, their commitment to genealogical research (a requirement of the faith) is outstanding, and they do open up their detailed records to non-Mormons.

[damontucker]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

Well put Leo...and my friends do have that..."We can't find it anywhere mentality at times"

Found this interesting about mormons...

While most Mormons say caffeine is their reason not to drink coffee and tea, an article in the Salt Lake Tribune states that 90 percent of adults in North America consume caffeine on a regular basis through other products.

http://www.fairlds.org/Mormonism_201/m20114.html

[kimo55]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

and coke. No coke or pepsi. But i found regular coke cans in my maddahz icebox one day and exclaimed; whatcho guys doing with this!?
and she said. i can have that when I want. It won't hurt me. once in a while.

[timkona]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

But Leo, the point is that my sister invited me to a wedding under false pretenses. In that sense, family only matters within the cult.

What's the point of flying to the mainland if I'm not allowed to attend the event? It's pure horse manure imho. And a waste of several thousand dollars.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

in my maddahz icebox

When I first read this, I thought "MadAzza's Mormon? Would she want you mentioning that here?"

Not MadAzza. Mom. Mother. Maddah.
(Like I told you in a pm yesterday - sometimes, it takes me a while...)

But Leo, the point is that my sister invited me to a wedding under false pretenses. In that sense, family only matters within the cult.

What's the point of flying to the mainland if I'm not allowed to attend the event? It's pure horse manure imho. And a waste of several thousand dollars.

I hear you. Informing you (before you made plans to attend) that you would not be able to enter Temple would have been the right thing to do, so you could have made your decision with that information up front.

And if I were your dad, I'd be stinging from that one too, for the rest of my life. That's too important a detail to leave out. Have you ever told your sister how much that hurt him? Why didn't she tell you folks? I'm sure she wasn't "forced" to keep it a secret; she may have thought that you would consider not attending. I think the blame goes on her shoulders, and not on the Mormon faith in general.

[damontucker]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

What's the point of flying to the mainland if I'm not allowed to attend the event? It's pure horse manure imho. And a waste of several thousand dollars.

Did they at least offer you a cup of coffee or a coke while you waited in that small room?

j/k

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

Did they at least offer you a cup of coffee or a coke while you waited in that small room?
j/k

At least they had whiskey; screw the caffeine!

[scrivener]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

Why didn't she tell you folks? I'm sure she wasn't "forced" to keep it a secret; she may have thought that you would consider not attending. I think the blame goes on her shoulders, and not on the Mormon faith in general.

Thank you. I was about to add the same thought. Please don't blame a religious body's long-standing and long-known traditions for poor communication on the part of one of its members. I'm not a Mormon, but it seems clear to me that, as Leo points out, the blame is hers, not the church's.

I would just like to add something that's been bugging me about this kind of talk for a long time: the idea that a lot of people have that they will tolerate anything except intolerance. That kind of tolerance is not tolerance at all. People who say they're going to tolerate all faiths except the ones that don't tolerate other faiths are just as guilty of intolerance as those intolerant faiths. In fact, I'd say they're more hypocritical, because at least the intolerant faiths are pretty blunt about what they don't tolerate, and they don't try to call their own intolerance its exact opposite.

[Bard]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

I was only LDS growing up in as much as they had free grape juice and bread during services. I was too young then to understand that it was supposed to have any other significance. They were definitely into geneology. We had some pretty extensive studies of our family... I should try to check that out some time, it might be interesting.

And yeah, they generally were against things with caffeine in them. Yet somehow even though my mom used that as an excuse not to drink Coke, she ate plenty of chocolate

My overall impression is that they were very nice people and cared a lot about community, but the times I later ended up on the business end of a conversion attempt it was all very patronizing.

The "self" thing disturbs me, but I attribute that to being an island person with island thinking.

By "the 'self' thing", you mean the focus on individualism? It varies a lot depending on the tradition. I think a lot more has been made of it in modernized versions too because a lot of people choose to go that way as a way to rebel from organized religion.

My wife would be the one to comment on that really though. She's spent a looooot of time studying European "mythology" (I agree that it's kind of weird to say one person's religion is mythology while another is not... but it's a concise word at least).

[pzarquon]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

We all know how it feels when we can't find something we're looking for - sometimes, we exaggerate unintentionally when we recount the tale: "I looked EVERYWHERE!"

That's all good and fine, Leo. It's the smirking addition of, "because of the 'Mormon' thing against caffeine" that's pretty asinine. The fact that the facts were fuzzy is just more mud in the water.

People who say they're going to tolerate all faiths except the ones that don't tolerate other faiths are just as guilty of intolerance as those intolerant faiths.

My head hurts.

Anyway, another note of concurrence here. The Mormon faith is pretty consistent and strict when it comes to temple access. Folks should be told that in advance before making the trip, but it's the responsibility of the person sending the invitations to advise guests of the parameters.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

I agree that it's kind of weird to say one person's religion is mythology while another is not...

Perhaps, if there is a relatively large population of living practitioners, it's a religion; if there are very few or no practitioners alive today, it's mythology.

My head hurts.

Think of it as "verbal sudoku."

[Miulang]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

What's kinda ironic is that I think there are more practicing Mormons outside of Salt Lake City than there are in the city! It's probably because a lot of gentiles have moved to SLC (especially after the Winter Olympics), although even when I lived there (early 70s), most of the people I hung out with were "jack" Mormons (people who were raised in the faith but who weren't devout). These friends of mine drank alcohol and caffeine, took illegal drugs, swore, and did worse things, but they used to tell me about some of the rituals and customs of the LDS church.

The church definitely stresses the value of family and self-reliance, and if you're a devout Mormon and get married, the highest honor is to have the marriage consecrated in the Temple. And once married, you are married to your partner in perpetuity (can you imagine the problems this would cause in Heaven if you got divorced a few times? ) They also believe that they can rescue their non-LDS relatives after they die by performing a "Baptism for the Dead". I think that's why they are so heavily into genealogy...so they can trace all their non-LDS relatives and have them baptized so when the Second Coming arrives, they too will find joy in Heaven. But even gentiles can take advantage of this vast warehouse of ancestral data, too, if they want to trace their family trees.

I respect that as a gentile I can't enter one of their Temples, and I do admire their tenacity because all of their Temples are totally paid for even before the first stone is laid. And if the Jews think they were persecuted...the Mormons have been just as persecuted as the Jews, and more recently, too. They were chased out of Missouri and ended up in Nauvoo,Illinois and from there made a harrowing trip across Indian country to land in Salt Lake City. When Brigham Young's party first saw the valley of the Great Salt Lake, he was said to exclaim, "This is the place!" and that's why the LDS Church grew up there. There is a "This is the place" monument and an entire historical park up near the Hogle zoo in the foothills overlooking Salt Lake City now.

If you ever have a chance to visit Salt Lake City, visit the Mormon Tabernacle (open to gentiles). It's a very awesome sight and the acoustics in there are perfect. You can also visit the Beehive House which is where Brigham Young lived. Pretty amazing architecture in there. They made these columns out of wood, but the finish on them is so fine that it looks exactly like marble.

And because Mormons tend to be self-sufficient, they help society too, because very few are on welfare.

Miulang

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Religion/Spirituality in Hawai'i

I would just like to add something that's been bugging me about this kind of talk for a long time: the idea that a lot of people have that they will tolerate anything except intolerance. That kind of tolerance is not tolerance at all. People who say they're going to tolerate all faiths except the ones that don't tolerate other faiths are just as guilty of intolerance as those intolerant faiths. In fact, I'd say they're more hypocritical, because at least the intolerant faiths are pretty blunt about what they don't tolerate, and they don't try to call their own intolerance its exact opposite.

“Tolerance implies no lack of commitment to one's own beliefs. Rather it condemns the oppression or persecution of others.” ~ John Kennedy