"Kill Haole Day"

[Miulang]

Re: "Kill Haole Day"

Since your kids have yet to start school, they would probably fare better when they do start school because they'd be in the same boat as every other kid. Hapa kids do better in Hawai'i than haole kids, I think. Most of the hazing against caucasian kids in the past happened on Oahu. For some reason, that kind of stuff was less apparent on the neighbor islands. I think part of the reason why it was so prevalent in parts of Oahu was because of the large influx of military families (you also don't see too many black people outside of the military in Hawai'i, unless they're tourists). The neighbor islands haven't been as influenced by the military as Oahu has been.

I'd be seriously worried about the quality of the education your kids would get in the public schools, though. I had a public school education through high school on Maui, but I think the standards have slipped since I was a student. You might have to do what many other parents have done, which is to send your kids to private school (pretty limited choices on Maui) in order for them to get a good education.

Miulang

[Lei K]

I think the same might apply to Native Hawaiians and Haoles, except reversed.

There aren't that many native Hawaiians left (something that saddens me on a daily basis on a personal level) so I wouldn't say native Hawaiians vs Haole. I'd say local kama'aina keiki vs haole. And I think it's always been local kama'aina (part Hawaiian or not) vs haole.

As for KHD in this day of age, I'm not sure if it still happens. I know in the mid/late 80s in high school (when my sisters attended) there was a lot of "eh haole, go back to da mainland" hating still going on.

My father said he used to have a hell of a time fitting in. Being Portuguese (3rd and 4th generation) he was never accepted by the haole kids, he was too brown. At the same time he wasn't brown enough to hang with da mokes.

I can honestly say my mother's side of the 'ohana calls my husband "haole boy" with nothing but aloha.

Some people are gonna think what they gonna think of you no matter what, can't change that. But for the others, attitude and an open mind does influence how people perceive you, just remember that.

Since your kids have yet to start school, they would probably fare better when they do start school because they'd be in the same boat as every other kid. Hapa kids do better in Hawai'i than haole kids, I think.

Then there's that whole hapa debate on if a person with no kanaka koko can truly be hapa.

Hawaiihopeful, you will soon learn that everything is debate worthy on HT.

[jimnyo]

Re: "Kill Haole Day"

hawaiihopeful, i agree everybody who posted after you...i also have to say i think you'll be happy to hear that hapa kids (half haole/half asian or hawaiian or whatever) are like demigods here. well, ok, that's maybe putting it a little too strongly, but you get my drift. i am also asian, married to a haole, and everyone comments on how lucky we are to have hapa kids and aren't hapa kids the most gorgeous things, etc. etc. etc. which is really kind of funny in light of kill haole day, right? b/c if they're so racist why would they celebrate the blending of races? go figure...i guess you can credit the stupidity of youth and hormones. but seriously, this is probably one of the best places to raise kids of mixed ethnicity...other than the question of quality of education in general, of course. but i heartily agree and actually, weirdly, in a way, look forward to, those discussions about racism with my kids. i think that leo lakio and you are right about coming to grips with the fact that it has, and always will, exist and i hope that i will be able to teach my kids how to intelligently and sensitively navigate this fact of life. seeing as hawaii is as diverse as it is, i think it will be much easier to do so than somewhere where everybody is caucasian (or asian, i guess, but i don't see us moving to china, lol!).

we've been here 7 years and my haole husband i just asked him if he's ever experienced racism during our time here. he said twice: one, in a windward side starbucks (i won't name which one), which has happned more than once so he doesn't go there anymore--good thing there are so many around, tee hee, and two, when we went to the big island and a moke was staring him down. but that's it. he even just volunteered, without knowing i was posting on this topic, that he thinks that teenagers talk about experiencing racism more than anybody else (he's also been working with teenagers for the last 10 years). so there ya go...

[PoiBoy]

Re: "Kill Haole Day"

I like public racism...because it lets me know where they stand. But I hate closet internet political racism. <-----cowards
Some people hate for no reason. But some people have a legitimate reason to hate.

Like everything else in this universe...racism exist for a reason.

[Marco]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

I like public racism...because it lets me know where they stand.

lol. You like public racism? Doesn't that kinda make you a racist?
j/k. I know what you're getting at there, but thought that was a funny thing to say.

I never had any "Kill Haole Day" issues. It didn't play a role in my childhood, and I come from a haole dad and Asian mom. I still got into a fair number of fights when I was a kid, but it had nothing to do with KHD. Just part of growing up. Kids are like lions: they go after the young and the weak. My uncle used to tell me that when in a confrontation and you start to get scared, take the first shot. That gets rid of your fear in a hurry, cuz now you're just scrapping and don't have time to be scared. And if you're gonna get your okole kicked, at least go down swinging.

Hmm. Now that I think about it, that's probably not the best advice in the world. When I was a kid, it seemed to make a lot more sense. Better to stand up for yourself and get their respect, then run away and have bullies chasing after you for the rest of your childhood.

In high school, I didn't get into many fights at all. But that's probably because every guy had a crush on my three older sisters, so they didn't want to piss em off. haha

[hawaiihopeful]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

Wow, thanks to everyone for their input. I'll try to address each response as best as possible.

Leo Lakio,

That's certainly something we'll have to teach our kids - I only became a minority when I was 14 when I moved to the States, and since I was such a big Chow Yun Fatt fan, I wasn't going to take anyone's crap, and I was pretty much outside the influence of what people might think of me, so I was fine. But my kids will have to grow up with it, and kids are infamous for being extremely open and loving and devastating and cruel at the same time.

Miulang

That's what I was thinking at first - my kids aren't blond hair, blue-eyed military brats who'd rather be somewhere else. (Not implying that Caucasians are that way, of course.) I know their mixed heritage will be somewhat of an advantage - I won't lie, but if my son and daughter takes up my wife and my personality, they'll probably be quiet, low-profile kids, which a lot of people like to mistake as complacency, or weakness. I also read about the state of public schools in Hawaii, which is still a strong concern for us - especially since we won't have the money to send the kids to private school. But my wife has had two girls who didn't do well in school - mostly attributed to how homework was enforced and their home environment.

LeiKaina

By the way, cute baby you've got there! And about the whole fitting it thing, I've found throughout my life I've had a pretty tough time fitting in as well, but I've also come to realize that only a small portion of that had to do with race. Some other kids who had less polished accents than I did made better friends, and some Asians kids just bonded together just fine. Me? An outcast who didn't even fit it with the outcasts. The only thing I've found that made me friends was my sense of humor, which so far has eluded these forums. I used to walk around with preset answers to possible racial slurs (now I realize they don't even have to be witty or vulgar - just a simple, "Grow up and get an education." would do.

jimnyo

I appreciate your input because we seem to have a similar cocktail mix of family, and yeah, we've gotten the "mixed children are the best" deal, and it's flattering in a weird sort of way. Once my mother-in-law said that my daughter looked like a China Doll, which made me think of saying something dumb like, "Really, I see more of a Russian Doll thing. That way I can put my kids inside each other and save space."

Originally, the cultural mix was a strong motivation for us to go to Hawaii because I'd like my kids to get some friggin' culture in their lives. I feel like they would be missing out on so many traditions and culture if they were in WA. I myself never got much culture in Singapore because we were into the whole Western consumer capitalism thing, and my mom was a single-mom who was spread pretty thinly.

Thank your husband for his input too. The thing about teenagers is that they'll find something in their lives to make them look like they're the saddest and sorriest one in the barrel. They like to pin their faults and misfortunes on something so that they don't have to take the responsibility for their actions. Ours was that she wanted to be with her Dad in another city, not with us. Of course, I'm sure her stupid boyfriend in the same city has absolutely nothing to do with that.

PoiBoy

Well.

Um...

I don't like racism much, private, public, or locked in a Disney vault. Although I used to think open displays of racism was probably better because the subtle, can't bear you racism can be hard to take sometimes. I did a wedding whereby the Chinese groom called himself a Chinaman to get a laugh from his groomsmen and I almost blurted out, "Respect yourself, c'mon."

I think racism exists due to two basic human emotions: fear and refusal of accountability.

Sigh. Why can't we be a Coke Commericial?

Marco

I also got into a couple fight in school, but I never threw that first punch, because then it was ON. They were silly little tussles, but I always, like you, stood my ground. And in all cases, they knew afterward that I wasn't a easy target who'd take abuse. The lion thing is a good metaphor. I have a similar metaphor, except odder. I was chased by a dog once, which I thought was some evil vampire dog, and I ran as fast as I could till I tripped and fell. Then I got pissed and yelled at it, then it turned into a bat and flew away. But I learned that well, don't run, and they won't chase you.

Yeah, that was a dumb story.

-----------

Well, talking on this forum helped a lot. The scales of moving have tipped back over a little, and I'm glad everyone understands that I only have this concern because those two are my babies. My wife practically cried when she read about KHD and thought about her kids being beat up.

Sigh. Racism is so draining. I think I'll go buy the world a coke.

BTW, here's a photo of my kids from last summer. Haven't taken a better photo since then. Cheers.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

Two absolutely beautiful children, HH. Thanks!

[Miulang]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

You have two little cuties! If you don't plan on moving soon, one other way you could get your kids immersed in the Hawaiian culture is to go find a hula school (halau) on the East side. I'm sure one must exist. Leo could probably tell you if you were interested. Some halau will take keiki and teach them hula (so that at least they get familiar with the language and music). Plus, it'll get them used to being around the kinds of kids they will encounter if they live in Hawai'i.

But since they're part Chinese, why not let them explore that part of their heritage first? Do you go into the International District at all? I would hope that you would take them there at least for Chinese New Year. I think it would be far better for them to know YOUR culture first. BTW, have you ever eaten at Rockin Wok in Wallingford? They make excellent Taiwanese food there! I believe there actually is quite a substantial Taiwanese community in the Seattle area (my primary care doc is from Taiwan, too).

Miulang

[PoiBoy]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

I think racism exists due to two basic human emotions: fear and refusal of accountability.

It's alot more complex than that.



btw..Beautiful kids

[PoiBoy]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

hawaiihopeful--

They should be proud of who THEY ARE. And pay respect to THEIR ANCESTORS. Chinese culture is beautiful ....don't substitute your culture for someone elses.

Otherwise when they grow up..they might have a cultural identity crisis.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

They should be proud of who THEY ARE. And pay respect to THEIR ANCESTORS. Chinese culture is beautiful ....don't substitute your culture for someone elses. Otherwise when they grow up..they might have a cultural identity crisis.

But do you feel it would be all right for them to study cultures other than their own? For non-Hawaiians to learn to dance hula, for example? (That's not the same as claiming to BE Hawaiian, which I am guessing would be more your concern.)

[PoiBoy]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

But do you feel it would be all right for them to study cultures other than their own? For non-Hawaiians to learn to dance hula, for example?

Sure go ahead. I encourage people to learn other cultures. If it's done properly and with respect. And taught by a someone knowledgable who upholds the rules and recognizes the spiritual side. Someone not just out to make a profit.

But they should first learn their own culture. They should be proud of their ancestors and understand who they are.

China is rich in culture and history. There is much to learn from them.

(That's not the same as claiming to BE Hawaiian, which I am guessing would be more your concern.

No thats not the same.

[hawaiihopeful]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

As I've mentioned before, Singapore was a western consumer obsessed country with a smidget of culture - and over here, we're pretty much by ourselves. My mother doesn't push culture or religion much, nor do I. We don't have a lot of Chinese friends or relatives over here, so we are a little detached from being "Chinese", if you wanna call it that.

That said, I'm not particular if my kids get Hawaiian culture or Chinese culture, really, any culture will do. It just so happens that Daddy and Mommy likes the idea of nice weather and nice beaches...

But no, I agree that they should be proud of their culture and heritage. I guess it's basically getting some incidental culture (by moving to Hawaii) or instilling culture (enrolling the kids in a Chinese school).

And about the comment about racism being mostly fear and refusal of accountability - yes, there are other factors. I'm generalising A LOT. But a lot of it has to do with people's thinking. For example, a fairly popular idea that some people have is that immigrants are stealing jobs from Americans, but being accountable would be thinking that the job market is getting slim because corporations are paying wages that are unacceptable to me and my family, so I should consider getting a different job.

Somehow I have this feeling that I've just opened a big ole can of lively, squiggling worms.

[hawaiihopeful]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

To add on the exchange, I'm not suggesting that it might be a "novelty" or "cute" if my little girl learns to hula - basically if she went to school, and they learned about it or saw it, and she was interested, I'd try to get her involved.

I think I'm implying that being in everyday Hawaii would just instill more culture than in Redmond, WA.

[PoiBoy]

Re: &quot;Kill Haole Day&quot;

Somehow I have this feeling that I've just opened a big ole can of lively, squiggling worms.

Worms don't belong in cans.