What do you believe?

[TATTRAT]

Re: What do you believe?

I am a spiritual person.

The difference, IMO, between a Godly person, and a spiritual person:
The Godly person sits in church, thinking about fishing.
The spiritual person is fishing, thinking about God.

I was turned off to "Organized religion" at an early age. As a teen ager who was trying to find identity, and raised with a mother who was active in the church's music department, I saw all the hypocritical things that were going on in the church. Seemed like a bunch of Sunday Saints. I have since, over the years, had MANY similar encounters with religious people that are so closed minded, they don't realize how ignorant they are, and how "UN- Christian" a lifestyle they are living. Some of the most raciest, bigotive, inconsiderate people I have ever met, hide behind religion. Because the attend service on Sunday, they are some how allowed to be ass holes the rest of the week...I don't get it.

I live my life by the golden rule, and I believe in Karma 100%. I have made mistakes along the way, but we are ALL human. I have read the Bible and for me, it raises more questions then answers. When I asked these questions to the proper Church "Authority" I was shot down. What I did gather is I don't need to attend a service in my Sunday bests to worship God. He is in everything I do, breath, see, and experience(good or bad), and I don't need to be reminded to live by the golden rule.


To each there own. Live, Love and Learn. That is what we are here for.

[Karen]

Re: What do you believe?

"I am a spiritual person.

The difference, IMO, between a Godly person, and a spiritual person:
The Godly person sits in church, thinking about fishing.
The spiritual person is fishing, thinking about God."

Wow! I had never heard this and you get a cyber-bouquet of flowers for it. You nailed it. thanks~

[scrivener]

Re: What do you believe?

I was turned off to "Organized religion" at an early age. As a teen ager who was trying to find identity, and raised with a mother who was active in the church's music department, I saw all the hypocritical things that were going on in the church. Seemed like a bunch of Sunday Saints. I have since, over the years, had MANY similar encounters with religious people that are so closed minded, they don't realize how ignorant they are, and how "UN- Christian" a lifestyle they are living. Some of the most raciest, bigotive, inconsiderate people I have ever met, hide behind religion. Because the attend service on Sunday, they are some how allowed to be ass holes the rest of the week...I don't get it.

I struggled with pretty much the same thing, but I realized three things that pretty much put me in church forever. First, there were a lot of hypocrites in church, but the good people far outnumbered them. I happened to attend the same church as a lot of my teachers in intermediate and high school, and I saw them in their professional personae as well as their church-going personae, and since some of them became family friends, I saw them in their homes. These were people I wanted to be around, no matter who else I had to be around in order to have that.

Second was the realization that church is for the broken. People who have it all together don't need church. People who don't struggle with the near-hypocrisy of saying they are followers of Christ don't need church. Of course the hypocrites are in church: That's where they need to be.

Third, and this was the knockout blow, was the realization that I am one of those hypocrites. I simply cannot live up to the standard of purity. I belong with the bigots, liars, cheats, thieves, and MBAs because I'm just as hypocritical as any of them. And as much as my fellow believers annoy, alienate, and aggravate me, I know that they are my people.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: What do you believe?

eloquently stated, Scrivener. Thanks for that.

[timkona]

Re: What do you believe?

Tattrat, you just made my book of quotes. Most excellent.

[TATTRAT]

Re: What do you believe?

I struggled with pretty much the same thing, but I realized three things that pretty much put me in church forever. First, there were a lot of hypocrites in church, but the good people far outnumbered them. I happened to attend the same church as a lot of my teachers in intermediate and high school, and I saw them in their professional personae as well as their church-going personae, and since some of them became family friends, I saw them in their homes. These were people I wanted to be around, no matter who else I had to be around in order to have that.

Second was the realization that church is for the broken. People who have it all together don't need church. People who don't struggle with the near-hypocrisy of saying they are followers of Christ don't need church. Of course the hypocrites are in church: That's where they need to be.

Third, and this was the knockout blow, was the realization that I am one of those hypocrites. I simply cannot live up to the standard of purity. I belong with the bigots, liars, cheats, thieves, and MBAs because I'm just as hypocritical as any of them. And as much as my fellow believers annoy, alienate, and aggravate me, I know that they are my people.

That is some very positive input. I respect you point of view.

The only thing I can really say is for me, in you third point, was for me, I was the exact opposite. I realized I was NOT a hypocrite. I can not put in any other way, and I am sure that I will get some opposition, but honestly, I felt I was not a hypocrite. I live by my beliefs, I stay true to myself, and by pure happenstance, that follows a Christian guideline. I know that there are great people involved in religion, I guess the place I was involved in had a less then stellar congregation. I got jaded, but that has not stopped me from attending church services.

I have attended services for many religions, from Sikh, to Buddhist, from Wican to Catholic. I feel I hold on to the most positive aspects of all my learnings and keep those as my own.

I know the sense of community and the feeling of "belonging" is very crucial to certain things, religion being one of those things. I guess, for the most part, like in some of my views I am on my own platform. I will NEVER bash someone else for what they chose to pursue and find happiness in, that is not my position. I feel that if you live a lifestyle, not matter what belief, it is your right as a human. That is the beauty of being human, The ability to form one own opinions/beliefs is a miracle in its self.

To throw back again to the spirituality side of things, I believe that organized religion was invented by man, spirituality comes from within. Simple cavemen and early forms of homonoids painted the walls with what they observed around them, to celebrate, to talk story, to tell a tale. Jesus was a real man, of that I have no doubt, but he as the ONE son of God...well, that is always open to speculation. Jesus Christ had a message that has transcended though the ages, and that in it's self is a wonderful thing. He had the mindset and the ability to stand by his affirmations regardless of what others thought, he had dignity, and today that is a trait that seems to be sidelined a little bit. Stand for what you believe, or you will fall for anything. HE died for what he believed in, and that is admirable...especially since it was to save all mankind.

Once again I respect your beliefs. My post is not to discredit what you say or what you believe, but to just shed a little light on what makes me, me. I have really enjoyed this thread and it is wonderful to see so many different views. People, no matter how big or how small, can carry HUGE opinions, it is the ability to accept just that, an opinion, that makes things in this world interesting, and I grow/learn from everyones input.

[DiverDown808]

Re: What do you believe?

I almost drove off the road in Waimanalo when I saw this church sign.

I guess it says it all

[tutusue]

Re: What do you believe?

I am a spiritual person.

The difference, IMO, between a Godly person, and a spiritual person:
The Godly person sits in church, thinking about fishing.
The spiritual person is fishing, thinking about God.[...]

[...]To throw back again to the spirituality side of things, I believe that organized religion was invented by man, spirituality comes from within.[...]

High five and a shaka! Make that 2 shakas!

[Karen]

Re: What do you believe?

On the Waimanalo baptist church sign....rofl..no! NO that is not real. LOL tell me that's some fancy puter trick photography.

Okay, ya did post that you almost drove off the road when you saw it. LOL I am tempted to phone the church and ask about it. how recently did you see that? why do I feel like gullible Edith Bunker for believing it's serious?


LOL I kill myself, okay, okay! I won't lie...I almost fell for it while I knew better. Wow, I dig that website and now...to have some fun with it! I think I need to crash for some sleep, lol.

huggz~

[StephS]

Re: What do you believe?

Steph, I respect and even dig that you've removed and distanced yourself from the "organized" part of it. I did, too and have never regretted it, and our daughters soon turn 20 and 23, and I see that for them I did the right thing in not ever taking them to a church service against their wills. (one of them requested it, and we never went back, cuz that clingy thing started, of wanting to do a home visitation immediately and at seven PM! good grief)

I do admit the bible gives instruction as to how to orderly hold services and that can be misconstrued to imply that organized worship is necessary, but same bible also said, and all of this written in antiquity....that the day was coming that man would no longer worship in a particular place....and now, thousands of years later, I am convinced that day did arrive. Same bible says the body is "the temple." Hmmm...not a temple just in case one is away from church, but 'the' temple. Yep, I agree.

Seems ten humans can hardly agree well on anything, hence "organized" worship was bound to become a mess with such a huge population in modern times. I'll hush now but I've got many more valid reasons for avoiding organized worship, than I can think of to attend ever again.

Every poster here rocks for discussing this in the way we have. I'm beyond impressed cuz dang, I have seen some flaming wars over this subject at other websites over the years.

huggz~

Thanks for the kind words, Karen! This seems to be one of the nicest, classiest boards I've been on when it comes to subjects like religion and others that are considered controversial by some. I hardly ever go to AOL's message boards anymore because most of them seem to be one big, ongoing flame war when it comes to discussing subjects like religion and wrestlers who go nuts and whack their families while still under the influence of 'roids, but here I can discuss things like that without fear of some jerk jumping down my throat.

Hugs to all!

[sinjin]

Re: What do you believe?

and your point is what exactly? oh..umm wait let me just end it here..

thats very nice sinjin.

Please don't think I was merely seeking to antagonize you. The thread was ressurected with a question for non-believers. You took that opportunity to proselytize by proxy. I found that gratiutous and claimed equal time for an alternative view. That's all. No need to get all hot and bothered. You can worship stones for all I care as long as you don't throw them at me.

[pzarquon]

Re: What do you believe?

I believe in lunch.

I don't believe in Thursdays.

That is all.

[CranBeree]

Re: What do you believe?

Please don't think I was merely seeking to antagonize you. The thread was ressurected with a question for non-believers. You took that opportunity to proselytize by proxy. I found that gratiutous and claimed equal time for an alternative view. That's all. No need to get all hot and bothered. You can worship stones for all I care as long as you don't throw them at me.

im not bothered at all. what many fail to realize is that i for one don't really care what the views are. im secure enough in my beliefs and i don't care to debate about it via a forum. so please dont think that you've antagonized me in any way. i come on here to read and to be entertained. and sometimes maybe i'll throw in my two cents. but otherwise.. just entertainment.

on another note, i found that wesbiste interesting, bceause they were formely non believers.....

[CranBeree]

Re: What do you believe?

Nice to see that there really is a lot of agreement among different religious perspectives. That's why I respect so many of the devoutly Christian contributors to HT, and (as stated earlier) do not feel that they are wrong or foolish or stupid for their faith, even though I do not share it.

The circumstances of their lives have led them to the beliefs that they carry in their hearts, just as my life's experiences have led me to mine. As long as we are okay with that, we have no problem.

Here's a piece I toss out for discussion, from the Greek philosopher Epicurus, regarding God and the existence of evil in the world:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

Leo, i found your piece quite interesting and from my POV here is my answer

FREE WILL
If He prevents evil...he eliminates our potential to choose...evil or good and loses His children and gains mindless beings...Remember, our number one reason for being created...to have relationship with Him.
Preventing evil? He is willing to and promises to do so one day...but first...loving us despite our sinful nature...He chooses to give us a bazillion chances to come back to him and avoid being part of this extermination of evil...again, He loves us so much He would sacrifice His son to pay the price for His wayward children...so that we can have that chance to return in relationship with Him.
This is some liberal cute attempt to befuddle with words.

my other two cents.

[sinjin]

Re: What do you believe?

im not bothered at all. what many fail to realize is that i for one don't really care what the views are. im secure enough in my beliefs and i don't care to debate about it via a forum. so please dont think that you've antagonized me in any way. i come on here to read and to be entertained. and sometimes maybe i'll throw in my two cents. but otherwise.. just entertainment.

I'm glad of that. You have a wonderful day.