What do you believe?

[CranBeree]

Re: What do you believe?

I'm glad of that. You have a wonderful day.

you too.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: What do you believe?

Cran, your response made me smile, and thank you for putting it into your perspective.

This is some liberal cute attempt to befuddle with words.

Considering that this came from a Greek metaphysical scientist who lived a few hundred years before Christ, it's kind of hard to classify his statement as simply "liberal," however - I'm not sure that concept existed at the time! (At least you found it "cute" as well!)

FWIW - Epicurus also stated that god(s) DO exist - but that they had no interest in or concern about the realm of man whatsoever. Of course, this is generally considered a c.y.a. statement on his part, as atheism was an offense punishable by death back in his day. I would hope no one suggests we return to that way of thinking, though I am reminded of President Bush-the-First's comment: "I don’t know that atheists should be considered patriots, nor should they be considered citizens."

[acousticlady]

Re: What do you believe?

I love you all. No matter what you believe or don't believe. It is what makes this place so great!

[craigwatanabe]

Re: What do you believe?

Here's a piece I toss out for discussion, from the Greek philosopher Epicurus, regarding God and the existence of evil in the world:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

I can't remember exactly where it is in scripture but I do remember that the bible does state that the ruler of Earth is not God but Satan himself. After Armageddon, Jesus will come down and reign in the kingdom of God for 1000 years.

This is why our present time is full of chaos and turmoil. When mortals such as Epicurus try to evaluate the situation without spiritual guidance, naturally they will look at what is understandable from a mere human perspespective and come to some rational statement based on the limits of our human understanding of the world.

You cannot make judgement statements for someone who is deeper than anyone on Earth by putting speculative questions and using humanly rational answers to explain the unknown.

Each question leads one to believe a certain outcome like leading the witness, you cannot lead by speculation and subjective answers to come to another possible outcome and then ask the inevitable question, "Then Why call him God?"

Why call him God? Because he is, that's why.

Philosophy is simply subjective thought. There is no objectivity in philosphy so therefore there cannot be any objective answer to a philosophical question. It's just one man's opinion. And Epicurus was just a man and for those who chose not to believe in an after life...who cares because he leaves no legacy right?

We all leave legacies whether we deserve to or not. This is one of the immortal feats we leave behind as mortals. And if we leave them therefore we become...immortal. Is there an after life? Do we leave legacies? Yes.

But that's just me.

[acousticlady]

Re: What do you believe?

For some reason I woke up this morning feeling compelled to tell the rest of the story regarding my belief system. While the physics related stuff is a big part of me, there is another, perhaps - to some - even more off the wall side of me. My experience has been (believe it or not) that the physics side is actually less controversial. Keep in mind, I am not preaching - just telling the whole story. In return, I do not wish to be preached at. I am more than willing to accept you for who you are and what you believe, but I ask in return that you accept me for who I am and what I believe.

I grew up in a chiropratic family. My father, uncle, brother and 4 cousins are all chiropractors. But it is more than just "back crackers". It is a life style - a "religion". I have very deffinent beliefs regarding healthcare. I have been doing yoga since puberity. It was taught to me by my mother. Not the "ommmm" kind of yoga, but the stretching, exercising type. I do not trust MD's and avoid the traditional system of medicine and drug taking so prevalent in this country. In the VERY rare instance that I (or someone in my family) gets a cold or flu, my first thought is to get an adjustment. It would not occur to me to take drugs (and yes, I think the medicines the MD's push are as bad, if not worse than the illegal ones). I think that those who yell the most about "why are our kids taking illegal drugs" are the ones who are the most whacked out on several different legal ones. So many people in this country are taking this drug for that and then this other drug to counteract the side effects of the first and then another to counteract the side effects of the second and so on. It is especially bad with our elderly. And we wonder why they always seem to be in la-la land.

I believe allergies and asthema are the direct result of this drug induced society. Patients under chiropractic care (the life style) have zero incidence of allergies or asthema. We pump our infants full of drugs before their immune systems have fully developed. I believe the incidences of altisium (sp.?) (which has skyrockected by over 60% in recent years) is due to the vacinations given at such a young age. I also believe the use of ultrasound during pregancy is weakening the immune systems of the infants and may also be an indicator in the upsurge of altisium.

People are so brainwashed about doctors and medicine that I am usually met with when I reveal what I believe. They are sure I am going to drop dead tomorrow if I don't run to the doctor and start taking something. I usually have to laugh because I am healthier and more active than most in their 20's (I will be 49 in a few weeks). I look at my mother (75) and my aunt (78) - who also have never taken anything or run to the MD - and I see healthy, vibrant women living healthy, fullfilling lives. The ones who seem most concerned that I do not believe in the MD's way of thinking are generally those who are battling this disease and that disease - who come down with nasty colds at least 4 times a year. These are also the same ones who tell me I shouldn't smoke. Maybe so - I am not without my own hypocracies. I, too have my own vices - I enjoy my weed too. I'll admit I'm not perfect and maybe I'm wrong - but in the meantime, I also look around me and say - I am am healthier and happier than most. I am at peace with myself and at the end of my life I will be able to say "I had a good time, people who love me and people whom I love."

[Karen]

Re: What do you believe?

Amen, Acoustic! I am with ya about the unnatural immunizations and OTC meds that aren't good for us, while I admit if I have to go somewhere and have a truly bad headache that raw garlic, or raw onion and raw vinegar didn't take away, I'll grab an OTC headache med while I hate doing it, same time.

Those shots, forcing several diseaes in a body at once when in nature none of us encounters and comes down with and/or has to try to fight off several major illnesses at once. Even if we did, but we don't......these pathogens are put into a body directly into the bloodstream which is way different than they normally enter the body, and science hasn't scratched the surface or even cared to try to figure out how this may be harming the body.

I believe with the shots we have in many cases traded illness now, for worse illnesses later. I saw a timeline drawn, using govt. or CDC numbers which showed per 100K people of course, how many kids had asthma, diabetes and cancers in the fifties and before, and then by the early sixties, how many kids had each of those. Well, it skyrocketed about the time shots were mandatory, or implied mandatory. A coincidence? No way....the diagram screamed otherwise.

We have even more shots now and autism and a huge amount of cancers, diabetes and asthma among kids. Science claims it can't "explain" Sudden infant death syndrome, or some make excuses for it being other than the shots put into a baby starting at only two mos. Yeah, right....

I've researched immunizations for over 25yrs. and I've read enough to win an argument in a courtroom, against forcing these on anyone...military or school kids. I just read at the CDC's website yesterday, in a section where doctors were asking how to properly care for their own patients, that the second MMR that they swore wasn't necessary for many years, that it is NOT a booster! Dig this.....they say that a tiny "two to five percent" of kids won't form proper immunity to the first shot, so the second one is given years later, cuz they think they've seen the second shot will "take" for that two to five percent, so.....95 or more percent of all kids that get the second MMR do NOT need it, as CDC clearly says it is not a booster.

Yep, make everyone suffer extra shots cuz a tad of kids don't get what they think they need, in less shots. THAT is our govt. at work.

I also read online that a lady in her 30s has won!! a lawsuit over the tetanus shot, as she had quick onset of MS symptoms after getting it. I'm like, oh REALLY? She actually won?!~ Yes! Hmm....so if she could actually GET MS from it, others of us could at least get a lighter case of it, and suffer, too? Common sense says it is so.

There's more about them than I can even remember to write, and won't write a book here, but I could.

I believe a lot like you, apparently.

[greentara]

Re: What do you believe?

For some reason I woke up this morning feeling compelled to tell the rest of the story regarding my belief system. While the physics related stuff is a big part of me, there is another, perhaps - to some - even more off the wall side of me. My experience has been (believe it or not) that the physics side is actually less controversial. Keep in mind, I am not preaching - just telling the whole story. In return, I do not wish to be preached at. I am more than willing to accept you for who you are and what you believe, but I ask in return that you accept me for who I am and what I believe.

I grew up in a chiropratic family. My father, uncle, brother and 4 cousins are all chiropractors. But it is more than just "back crackers". It is a life style - a "religion". I have very deffinent beliefs regarding healthcare. I have been doing yoga since puberity. It was taught to me by my mother. Not the "ommmm" kind of yoga, but the stretching, exercising type. I do not trust MD's and avoid the traditional system of medicine and drug taking so prevalent in this country. In the VERY rare instance that I (or someone in my family) gets a cold or flu, my first thought is to get an adjustment. It would not occur to me to take drugs (and yes, I think the medicines the MD's push are as bad, if not worse than the illegal ones). I think that those who yell the most about "why are our kids taking illegal drugs" are the ones who are the most whacked out on several different legal ones. So many people in this country are taking this drug for that and then this other drug to counteract the side effects of the first and then another to counteract the side effects of the second and so on. It is especially bad with our elderly. And we wonder why they always seem to be in la-la land.

I believe allergies and asthema are the direct result of this drug induced society. Patients under chiropractic care (the life style) have zero incidence of allergies or asthema. We pump our infants full of drugs before their immune systems have fully developed. I believe the incidences of altisium (sp.?) (which has skyrockected by over 60% in recent years) is due to the vacinations given at such a young age. I also believe the use of ultrasound during pregancy is weakening the immune systems of the infants and may also be an indicator in the upsurge of altisium.

People are so brainwashed about doctors and medicine that I am usually met with when I reveal what I believe. They are sure I am going to drop dead tomorrow if I don't run to the doctor and start taking something. I usually have to laugh because I am healthier and more active than most in their 20's (I will be 49 in a few weeks). I look at my mother (75) and my aunt (78) - who also have never taken anything or run to the MD - and I see healthy, vibrant women living healthy, fullfilling lives. The ones who seem most concerned that I do not believe in the MD's way of thinking are generally those who are battling this disease and that disease - who come down with nasty colds at least 4 times a year. These are also the same ones who tell me I shouldn't smoke. Maybe so - I am not without my own hypocracies. I, too have my own vices - I enjoy my weed too. I'll admit I'm not perfect and maybe I'm wrong - but in the meantime, I also look around me and say - I am am healthier and happier than most. I am at peace with myself and at the end of my life I will be able to say "I had a good time, people who love me and people whom I love."

And another amen too ya acoustic!!! Thank you for articulating my philosophy. I truly believe that the drug companies are the evils of our society. I am a couple of years older than you and I have never taken any prescription drugs with the exception of antibiotics when necessary. I enjoy a stress free life style and soon I will enjoy a stress free environment.

[DKP]

Re: What do you believe?

Same here. Yoga, whether you accept the spiritual components or not, is incredibly effective for a healthy immune system/general physical shape.

And as far as synthetically produced medicines go, I feel there are some that are more effective than natural, and definately vice-versa. Bipolar meds, for example. I'm just mildly bipolar and don't require them. I do get some of the symptoms, thankfully infrequently. Sometimes I wake up feeling extremely burnt out (depressive side), unable to focus on anything. Mild mania occurs once in a while. These specific episodes aren't the result of external stimuli, rather, internal (slight cyclic chemical imbalance, hence the bipolar diagnosis...since 'burnout' feelings and mania can be experienced by anyone because of life, the key here is whether they are or not). I do have friends that are critically ill from it (and I do mean critically, I've lost a few to suicide). Many feel much worse on their meds, and that's not even taking into account the physical side effects.

Certain strains of cannabis, taken in vapor form, did and continues to do the job properly (via vaporizer as to filter out certain chemicals and to avoid smoke inhalation). Other parts of the world regard cannabis as a powerful medicine and so do I.

I'm lucky that my mother's brother is a kahu and is heavily involved in la'au lapa'au (I'm still learning). Problem is, most of the ingredients come from endemic plants. Ecosystems here aren't what they used to be, and many of the necessary plants are becoming increasingly scarce thanks to foreign competition/lack of native birds to disburse seeds (and they aren't adapting to the foreign food supply fast enough). Add to that the lack of open spaces at certain elevations (lowlands/shorelines especially), and the practice becomes more a test of hiking skills than production skills.

I'm just trying to spread awareness (I know most of you already know this stuff), as the more who care usually ='s the more funding/help avail. for conservation.

---Religion----------------------------------------------------------------

Oh yeah, I guess I'd be considered unorganized pagan. My heaven is the forests far behind O'ahu subdivisions and the remote unpopulated waters where most don't care to venture to. I praise nature, in a sense. I spend alot of time alone in places such as these (and many times, with others...but it isn't the same). I respect ancient religions that involve nature-worship but don't really subscribe to them.

I actually grew up around Catholicism (9 years in a Catholic school, Religion was a subject taught daily). I don't believe in that specific God, nor respect many of the things done in his name (certain people, not all). There may be a higher being out there, but I just don't believe that HE is it.

I also don't believe in heaven and hell. I will not worship a being that forces me to be a certain way...OR ELSE...out of fear. I can't respect a God that enforces that. If it is all true, so be it. I'll pay the price. In this existence, I'd rather believe that I will become further interwoven in the fabric of nature after death, than rewarded/punished.

However, to me, The Ten Commandments (certain ones) are a great foundation for humanity, and without at least some people following at least certain ones, we probably would've destroyed ourselves long ago. Someone might say, you can't pick and choose. That someone does not control my destiny.

Someone once sang (don't think I have to mention names)...

"Most people think,
Great God will come from the skies,
Take away everything
And make everybody feel high.
But if you know what life is worth,
You will look for yours on earth..."

...so I listened and did. And mine IS Earth.

Peace to everyone, regardless of their beliefs. Not trying to preach, just trying to explain

[beaker]

Re: What do you believe?

My heaven is the forests far behind O'ahu subdivisions and the remote unpopulated waters where most don't care to venture to. I praise nature, in a sense. I spend alot of time alone in places such as these (and many times, with others...but it isn't the same).

You need to relocate to Hilo. Seriously.

[DKP]

Re: What do you believe?

I used to visit there at least twice a year growing up (friend's mom had a place there). Surfed Honoli'i and Pohiki from sun up to sun down. Beautiful! My dad's side is from Honoka'a, hopefully I'll move there in the future.

Right now, I'm taking care of my elderly parents on O'ahu.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: What do you believe?

You need to relocate to Hilo. Seriously.

Ummm...not Hilo...I would venture further out like Pahoa where the scent of Pakalolo wafts thru the air on any given day.

[Pomai]

Re: What do you believe?

since joining HT, i've noted with interest what people say about god/goddess/gods/goddesses/religion/organized religion/spirituality/the bible and for better or worse, i wanna ask y'all:

what do you believe?

First of all, I believe you should CAPITALIZE the first letter of your sentences.

As far as practicing religion, I'm a Buddhist with Soka Gakkai, formerly a part of Nichiren Shoshu (long story).

But I won't let my karma run over your dogma.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

[acousticlady]

Re: What do you believe?

I believe I've been spelling Buddhist wrong

Scrivener - where are you? I thought you were supposed to correct me on my spelling!

[Karen]

Re: What do you believe?

Acousticlady, your spelling practices have not taken away from your messages, not one bit. You've come across "loud and clear" and that's just an old cliche, not some insult on the loud part.

[Pomai]

Re: What do you believe?

Despite your opinion of the PTL Club and the Bakker scandal, Tammy Faye's death this Saturday reveals what/why/how we should strive to do good for others and ourselves.

Karma.