Heiau

[Peshkwe]

Re: Heiau

Yup the snack cake and the wannabe cultural thief have alot in common, both have a sweet desireable golden coating, covering a center of fluff.

And both have absolutely no nutritional value whatsoever....they'll either rot your body or your soul.

[Miulang]

Re: Heiau

Ho Peshkwe!
Thank you for your insights "from the other side". I knew a Wampanoag medicine man in Boston (Slow Turtle) who told me things that really opened my eyes to what has happened to the Ndn. I didn't realize, for one thing, that the tribes didn't have a legal right to vote (ha!) until the late 40s or 50s and that it took an act of Congress to give the Native Americans a right that should have been theirs from the beginning. It was because of Slow Turtle, though, that as a non-Ndn (but as a nonwhite) I began to realize that it's all about respect: for yourself, for others, for nature.

I never attended any of the powwows that Sun Bear used to have in the PNW, but I have attended some of the local powwows. It makes me happy to see that the newest generations of Ndns are learning about their heritage and are proud to do their dances and learn their languages. In much the same way, I am happy that there is a Renaissance of learning about the Hawaiian culture both in the 'aina and here on the Mainland.

The tribes and the kanaka maole face the same types of struggles, which is why, I think, at least in the PNW, there have been attempts to bring together both nations in meaningful ways to discuss common issues. There are several local tribes here who are fighting for official tribal status, much in the way that the Native Hawaiians are pushing for sovereignty. (The tribes don't want to establish their own sovereign nations, though. They just want to be legally recognized so they can tap into the federal funding and special rights given to recognized tribes)

I'm still not sure if BIA or OHA really are serving the interests of the people they are supposed to serve because for the most part, their management is rife with the white-cored type people.

But I also sense a conundrum here: if someone doesn't get educated, how will they be able to make changes to help their people? Can there be such a thing as an "egg" person? (White on the outside but yellow on the inside...having to appear and act white in order to work within the system to make changes to benefit the inner core?)

Interesting, indeed.

Miulang

[Peshkwe]

Re: Heiau

Ho Peshkwe!
Thank you for your insights "from the other side". I knew a Wampanoag medicine man in Boston (Slow Turtle) who told me things that really opened my eyes to what has happened to the Ndn. I didn't realize, for one thing, that the tribes didn't have a legal right to vote (ha!) until the late 40s or 50s and that it took an act of Congress to give the Native Americans a right that should have been theirs from the beginning. It was because of Slow Turtle, though, that as a non-Ndn (but as a nonwhite) I began to realize that it's all about respect: for yourself, for others, for nature.

I never attended any of the powwows that Sun Bear used to have in the PNW, but I have attended some of the local powwows. It makes me happy to see that the newest generations of Ndns are learning about their heritage and are proud to do their dances and learn their languages. In much the same way, I am happy that there is a Renaissance of learning about the Hawaiian culture both in the 'aina and here on the Mainland.

The tribes and the kanaka maole face the same types of struggles, which is why, I think, at least in the PNW, there have been attempts to bring together both nations in meaningful ways to discuss common issues. There are several local tribes here who are fighting for official tribal status, much in the way that the Native Hawaiians are pushing for sovereignty. (The tribes don't want to establish their own sovereign nations, though. They just want to be legally recognized so they can tap into the federal funding and special rights given to recognized tribes)

I'm still not sure if BIA or OHA really are serving the interests of the people they are supposed to serve because for the most part, their management is rife with the white-cored type people.

But I also sense a conundrum here: if someone doesn't get educated, how will they be able to make changes to help their people? Can there be such a thing as an "egg" person? (White on the outside but yellow on the inside...having to appear and act white in order to work within the system to make changes to benefit the inner core?)

Interesting, indeed.

Miulang

HA!! The BIA has "lost" billions of tribal monies, they just plain ol dunno where it is and so the Nations or individuals that are owed it go without. If OHA is anything like the BIA...~ouch~...

Broken Trust


Education, gathering knowedge and the learning wisdom of how to use that education is imperative if any culture is to survive, other than the bland homogenized drone like one being forced onto the general populace.

It's a not like having to wear a mask or playing 'white' on the outside while being 'yellow' on the inside....hrrm...it's more like walking a tight rope with one of those long balance poles in your hands. On one side of the pole you have your culture to keep alive with all it's richness and special uniqueness. On the other side of the pole you have the world of business, technology and the day to day interactions with everyone else and their personal cultures, so requiring a certain amount of standardization (ie: the dominate American society standard drone). To move forward you have to learn to balance that pole just so, too far to one side or the other stops your progress and you'll either not be able to deal with the dominate mass culture or you'll totally lose your personal culture.

Off balancing either way for a whole group of people can mean death of the culture in the long run. The results of off balancing to the dominate mass Americanized culture is obvious. The other side not so, if a group doesn't help their young to learn to balance both worlds more young will throw the culture away than keep it strong, it's easier to go with the flow than to fight against it.

My thoughts on it anyhoo

[Kalani]

Re: Heiau

I really really wanted to go see the Iliiliopae heiau when we were on Molokai last week, but it's on private property and we couldn't contact the owner (or arrange for a local tour guide) to get permission to visit the place.

Why did you go to Molokai? You know someone there?

[Rickyrab]

Re: Heiau

Why did you go to Molokai? You know someone there?

Maybe someone might go to Molokai to see what it's like.

Oops. Old thread. My bad for responding.

[AbsolutChaos]

Re: Heiau

It's kinda unfair to expect ignorant people to respect local ways and to know that to do the whole ti-wrapping-leaf thing if you're a non-Hawaiian is disrespectful. When the "local" guide encourages you to do so, as a tourist you tend to wholeheartedly and with good intentions follow his/her lead. People always want to "belong" and "contribute" to a culture, even if it's a fleeting contribution. It feels good to "contribute," even if it is done out of ignorance. It's not done to be intentionally disrespectful...it's usually a misguided attempt to honor the culture you are visiting .

The problem I have is with all the guides that encourage visiting people to do so. THEY are the ones who should know better and should explain the significance so that more of this behavior is discouraged.

Hope this makes sense...it's late...I need to get some sleep. I'll probably have to add to my post in da' morning to clarify all my hastily typed words. Night, all...

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Heiau

It's kinda unfair to expect ignorant people to respect local ways and to know that to do the whole ti-wrapping-leaf thing if you're a non-Hawaiian is disrespectful. When the "local" guide encourages you to do so, as a tourist you tend to wholeheartedly and with good intentions follow his/her lead. People always want to "belong" and "contribute" to a culture, even if it's a fleeting contribution. It feels good to "contribute," even if it is done out of ignorance. It's not done to be intentionally disrespectful...it's usually a misguided attempt to honor the culture you are visiting .

The problem I have is with all the guides that encourage visiting people to do so. THEY are the ones who should know better and should explain the significance so that more of this behavior is discouraged.

Sure. I don't get all that annoyed with Howard and Marge from Topeka, because they don't know any better. I do get annoyed with "Kawika" from Santa Barbara who's been in the islands for a year and is working as a tour guide and giving tourists misinformation because he's too damned lazy to find out the real story and instead makes something up.

[Rickyrab]

Re: Heiau

Sure. I don't get all that annoyed with Howard and Marge from Topeka, because they don't know any better. I do get annoyed with "Kawika" from Santa Barbara who's been in the islands for a year and is working as a tour guide and giving tourists misinformation because he's too damned lazy to find out the real story and instead makes something up.

Heck, I was so uninformed when I saw Kalaiea Heiau (the one at Ka Lae, whatever the actual name was) that I didn't know that one was "supposed" to do anything with rocks and ti leaves, let alone that a non-Hawaiian wasn't supposed to do that. So I merely looked at the offerings already there, didn't do anything to disturb them, didn't add anything, didn't subtract anything, and left to look out at the sea and the coastal rocks.

[Pomai]

Poliahu Heiau on Kauai

A few months back while visiting Kauai, we stopped by Poliahu Heiau, which stands alongside the Wailua River, as you drive up Kuamo'o Rd.

There are signs in front that clearly forbid visitors from tampering or removing anything within the perimeter of the Heiau. Tourists there at the time of our visit were very respectful.

[kimo55]

Re: Heiau

It's kinda unfair to expect ignorant people to respect local ways

..... many of them are seen trodding upon heiau, removing or moving pohaku, leaving things on the heiau, crossing the kapu line and entering the sacred enclosure at heiau all over Oahu as well as the FtDerussy Memorial for fallen maoli warriors. I was once doing a shoot at Puuhonua o Honaunau and these german tourists actually removed the fence enclosure of the Hale o Keawe temple and entered so they could get a picture of themselves next to the ki'i. I roundly berated them and told them to expect well... don't remember exactly what I said, but implied it is extremely bad luck to commit such a disrespectful damaging trespass and possibly ill fortune will befall these cretins.

it is thoughtless, stems from a lack of education, a lack of breeding, of consideration, cultural sensitivity...
These louts, inured to the sensitivity required while visiting other cultures, live in a society that unfortunately, continually believes nothing is sacred. anything is game for ridicule, exploitation, for commercialization. So; they say to themselves; Since I see goofy looking tikis in party supply centers and plastic tikis available in the dollar stores nationwide, and I see the sacred godhead of Polynesia on sportswear swinging gold clubs, and others reinforce that it's ok to challenge, well this means I have no need to keep my distance, I can walk all over heiau, litter on sacred ground, make childish rude comments when I am exposed to the ancient carved gods of Polynesia when visiting the Bishop Museum...

Not only do many NOT exhibit a little respect, they display belligerence, antagonism and they argue for their right to be an ay-hole. And in front of their impressionable children. When they are told; "kapu; stay on the other side of the chain. stay away from the ki'i. This area is kapu!" They don't back up, Instead, they argue: "Hey. We're just looking." What kinda example do they offer others? what kind of a jerk are they teaching their kids to grow up to be?! What diminished, corrupt form of a 'man' are they telling the world they have grown into? What is the lesson? "My offspring can grow up to do whatever they damn well please and show disrespect toward other cultures and fight with the representatives of the foreign cultures and 'religious icons' ".

vive la ugly americain

Nope. I say; some things are sacred and should be treated as such. And supposedly, mature thinking adults should show respect. I can't see how some feel comfortable belittling the things held in highest regard by a society and culture far removed from their own, that has been beaten down for so long by foreigners. When will they acheive satisfaction in their perniciously rapacious wanton ways?! How can they sleep with themselves?

just as the highest deities (Jesus, Mary, the concept of their God... and the images of jesus on the cross...) in christianity are sacred to many americans... (THEY call them sacred, so I can respect that. ) just so; Ku, Kane, Kanaloa, Lono, Hina, Pele... and others, all are sacred to many Hawaiians, ancient and modern. you see: "sacred" is defined as worthy of religious veneration... entitled to reverence and respect.

[Pomai]

Poli'ahu Heiau

Here's the actual photos we took of Poli'ahu Heiau on Kauai. The diagram shows how the rock perimeter and structures within (which no longer exist) are laid out. Poli'ahu Heiau, the largest on Kauai, is located high above Wailua River, which is below to the left (out of view).


The pedestal diagram had Plexiglass over it that was really weathered and scratched.

You can download the Poliahu Heiau Brochure PDF here.

Note: Before taking pictures, we made sure to see if it was ok. No sign mentioned pictures being forbidden. Only tampering, removing, climbing on or within the rock perimeter was listed as Kapu. You are allowed to walk right up to that little wooden sign in the middle and that's it. Out of respect, we kept our distance to the pedestal display.

Image hosted by www.96Seven44.com