Women in a man's world - What are your views?

[Peshkwe]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

Here's the article if anyone has a subscription for it:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/s...ditorial4.html


Phyllis Schlafly might be considered one, she made a career and successful business of telling women to stay home.

Omarosa from the tv show 'The Apprentice' has that going on too.

[acousticlady]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

you know, there's something rather telling about the way you brag about how mr. karen polishes your pedestal for you versus your statements about how it's rightfully not a man's world anymore versus your comments about "if" your marriage doesn't last.

I have to agree 100% on this one. An equal partnership does not hold either on a pedestal.

By the way ericncyn, you need to clean out your PM box - and thanks!

[Menehune Man]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

1)re my "show me a man who.." statement, my apologies to MM & JT--it was late, i was tired, and i had intended to put in an introductory phrase along the lines of, "since you're (KK) going to make sweeping statements like that, let me make this one...."

hope that helps...and i hope that MM reads this even tho he's decided to bow out of this thread.

2)JT & MM--your ambivalences or difficulties with the feminist movement, i understand and can accept. i agree there are radical feminists whose opinions i don't agree with in practice, but i guess i'm kinda like blacks in the civil rights era who didn't agree with malcolm x's radical ideas but accepted them. this is because, as i said, the great social movements need radicals to get things going--it's the moderates whose policies/practices generally become the accepted path toward healing wrongs. this is why i can be angry--livid, in fact--that some of my male friends were denied fair treatment during a child support/custody but yet accept that radical feminists are necessary to keep pushing the movement forward. ultimately, i would like to see a world where the differences between men and women are accepted by both men and women but not used as a sweeping reason to exclude or discredit or mistreat one or the other.

1) Thanks! I think the biggest problem that people have with others that are "different", be it genders, races, whatever, is the sweeping generalizations that are thought, whether or not spoken. We need to take individuals as just that... individual.

2) I'm not ambivalent though have had difficulties. I've been worked over by the system and some women. I haven't given up on the human race to evolve into more understanding. I truly love women and am glad men have learned to be kinder, more accepting of women's rights than in previous generations.

My only hope is that women, in general, don't take that kindness for weakness and drive men into a corner where we'll have to fight back.
Because it'll harder than ever to get along.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

1) Thanks! I think the biggest problem that people have with others that are "different", be it genders, races, whatever, is the sweeping generalizations that are thought, whether or not spoken. We need to take individuals as just that... individual.

2) I'm not ambivalent though have had difficulties. I've been worked over by the system and some women. I haven't given up on the human race to evolve into more understanding. I truly love women and am glad men have learned to be kinder, more accepting of women's rights than in previous generations.

My only hope is that women, in general, don't take that kindness for weakness and drive men into a corner where we'll have to fight back.
Because it'll harder than ever to get along.

MM, i'm glad that my clarifying made you feel better.

you're now going to be frustrated with me, again. when you say (paraphrasing you) "women, in general, don't take that kindness for weakness...(otherwise) we'll have to fight back" it's just another indication to me, that men, in general, including you, still think, for lack of a better way of saying it, that women are at men's mercy. the concept that men are better/stronger/more powerful than women is ingrained into men from birth. men don't even realize it's so ingrained in their software.

if i'm not quite communicating to you what i mean, imagine yourself hearing someone say:

"My only hope is that (insert your ethnicity here), in general, don't take that kindness for weakness and drive (insert other person's ethnicity here) into a corner where we'll have to fight back."

can you see how that statement is at least a little off-putting?

"My only hope is that Hawaiians, in general, don't take that kindness for weakness and drive whites into a corner where we'll have to fight back."

besides, i don't think that "women, in general" take the general kindness of men as weakness. most of us understand that most men like having women in the workplace, wearing pants, etc. most of us appreciate those great single fathers out there...or at least men who try to be good single fathers but are somehow pre-empted by dey bebe's mamas from doing so (like i've said before, i know a few men in this position or in similar positions).

in short, most "women, in general" take don't even think to take "the kindness of men" as any kind of weakness. most of us just take it as what SHOULD JUST PLAIN OLD BE. it's not something you guys should bestow upon us with a beneficient hand. it's what's supposed to happen.

i would say that, for example, the difficulties that joshuatree has had in court wasn't the work of a woman who took, feministically (here i go with my invented words) speaking, advantage of his "kindness for weakness." it's clear that she's a psycho bitch, thinking only of herself, not any movement for her gender, and somehow has had the luck of working the system to her advantage. i really feel for JT, and i think the majority of women would feel empathy for him too.

on the other hand, we can't always look at things on an "individual" level. social movements are necessary because they improve things for most individuals who have been mistreated as a general class of people. this is why the civil rights movement, the feminist movement, etc. is so important.

okay, you guys. i gotta admit something here. this thread is invigorating, but it's making me tired and a little sad, too.

[Menehune Man]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

NOW THIS IS LIVING LIFE

Ask God for His will in your life
It's truly what He wants
He knows you need and want a wife
The devil only taunts

Ask yourself "Is it really good?"
Or just a selfish waste
Is what you'd do the same as should
And will she share a taste

We can't go into marriage
Just looking to receive
Be willing to push the carriage
Carefully, don't deceive

Please don't treat your wife as slave
Wives don't boss your husband
We are not living in a cave
Together we must band

Now following God's instruction
To save us from the strife
Yes, saved from mass destruction
Now this is living life

Author: Jeff Ruddy aka.-Menehune Man

[Menehune Man]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

I was looking around the web and discovered the blog of Reid S. Monaghan.
I like his stuff, take a read all. http://www.powerofchange.org/blog/20...nd_female.html

Small quote for Men: Most of you out there are good men as well, but you are good men who have been derided by a culture that does not care for you, that, in terms of the family, has ridiculed your authority, denied your importance, and tried to fill you with confusion about your role. But I can tell you that fathers change lives, as my father changed mine. You are natural leaders, and your family looks to you for qualities that only fathers have. You were made a man for a reason, and your daughter is looking to you for guidance that she cannot get from her mother.

Small quote for Women: For the Ladies

I have two young daughters so I have many many dreams for young women today. If I could give a tiny bit counsel to them and to you it would be this. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength. Put his honor above all things and do not be ashamed of the Word of God. Take every advantage of your educational and career opportunities. Serve the community with skill, leadership, and the grace that God places in your soul. Do your best, but don’t sell out to the myths of careerism and don’t give yourself or your bodies to men who do not honor you, make you better, and love you in the way of Jesus. Continue to show patience in God’s plan for your life, be it in singleness or marriage. While you are single serve, connect, and do not be so busy you cannot spend time with families. If you do marry, love and respect your husband. Believe in him, he will be so much a better man because of your standing with him. Submit to his leadership because of what can be seen in your marriage to glorify the Lord Jesus. And if by God’s grace you are given children, pray long and hard about the person(s) you most want loving and shaping their tiny souls. No man or worker can ever be a mother, God has granted this gift only to you. Do not be embarrassed by your unique feminine urges to love, connect, nurture and bond deeply. Do not fear being strong for those around you – it is part of your calling. Do not trivialize or treat Proverbs 31 as a cliché, it is a beautiful picture of holistic femininity given to you by your God. Remember, you always have and will continue to shape the men of this world. Your belief in, encouragement, and esteem of the guys will go a long way making them all God wants them to be. Your belittling of them wounds deeper than you could know. You are unique, you are a woman, and you are a wonderful cameo of the image of God. In the Lord, woman is not independent of man or man of woman; for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God. Yes, all things were created by him and for him. Including you – you are one of the most striking, beautiful, creations of the Almighty God. Reject this image based, sex crazed culture and see yourselves as daughters of the most high, prized possessions of Jesus, your great refuge and King. Let your adornment be the person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. Yes, very precious...

[i-hungry]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

I know of one woman personally who is living a life of abuse. No matter what I say to her, she still believes her life is with her husband and ultimately must do as he says.

Does she have a sister?

Nah just joking.

[Menehune Man]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

If a man is truly kind and caring then wouldn't the woman involved with him wish to follow his lead? Or...

I know some men aren't, though most will be when treated with respect.

IMO

[Mahi Waina]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

This is one area where the Golden Rule doesn't work: Most men would be thrown in jail if they 'did unto women' what they would have women 'do unto them.'

I understand that women consider it disrespectful to be treated as sex objects, but that's hard-wired into men's brains (and other organs.) Is it sexist to believe that we were put on this Earth to enjoy each other?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

This is one area where the Golden Rule doesn't work: Most men would be thrown in jail if they 'did unto women' what they would have women 'do unto them.'

I understand that women consider it disrespectful to be treated as sex objects, but that's hard-wired into men's brains (and other organs.) Is it sexist to believe that we were put on this Earth to enjoy each other?

Tell me what your thumb's range of motion is, and I will respond appropriately.

[Mahi Waina]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

Tell me what your thumb's range of motion is, and I will respond appropriately.

It's double-jointed.

[Menehune Man]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

Tell me what your thumb's range of motion is, and I will respond appropriately.

At the possibility of sounding totally stupid, I've got to ask...

What do you mean by this?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

If I have to explain it...(opposable thumb; evolutionary primate joke, gentlemen, instead of tearing into MW's logic about what men and women's hardwiring needs of 'sex and disrespect').

I will end instead with wishing everyone a Happy Women's Rights Day. Today, 8/26 marks the 87th anniversary of women receiving the right to vote in the US.

[Menehune Man]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

1)If I have to explain it...(opposable thumb; evolutionary primate joke, gentlemen, instead of tearing into MW's logic about what men and women's hardwiring needs of 'sex and disrespect').

2)I will end instead with wishing everyone a Happy Women's Rights Day. Today, 8/26 marks the 87th anniversary of women receiving the right to vote in the US.

1) Since you knew that you were communicating with a human and we all have opposable thumbs, I see no humor in that 'joke'. Sounds more like a condescending snipe to me. I may be wrong though.

2) Happy Women's Rights Day to one and all!

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

This is one area where the Golden Rule doesn't work: Most men would be thrown in jail if they 'did unto women' what they would have women 'do unto them.'

I understand that women consider it disrespectful to be treated as sex objects, but that's hard-wired into men's brains (and other organs.) Is it sexist to believe that we were put on this Earth to enjoy each other?

1) Since you knew that you were communicating with a human and we all have opposable thumbs, I see no humor in that 'joke'. Sounds more like a condescending snipe to me. I may be wrong though.

2) Happy Women's Rights Day to one and all!

Sociological point in red.
Primate excuse in indigo.
following that argument, WTF?? in green.

condescending snipe? It was my retort to a very condescending and nonsensical remark.

Shall I break it down?
Since when is sexism defined as, or should rest upon the defense of "enjoying each other"? Blaming "wiring" is a cop-out. Why then do women find it disrespectful? Self-defense is part of our "wiring", too. It is for the fact that acknowledging the disrespect means to acknowledge the wrongdoing. The statements that followed were excuses.