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Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway
Per HRS 334-1:
"Dangerous to others" means likely to do substantial physical or emotional injury on another, as evidenced by a recent act, attempt or threat.
"Dangerous to property" means inflicting, attempting or threatening imminently to inflict damage to any property in a manner which constitutes a crime, as evidenced by a recent act, attempt or threat.
"Dangerous to self" means the person recently has threatened or attempted suicide or serious bodily harm; or the person recently has behaved in such a manner as to indicate that the person is unable, without supervision and the assistance of others, to satisfy the need for nourishment, essential medical care, shelter or self-protection, so that it is probable that death, substantial bodily injury, or serious physical debilitation or disease will result unless adequate treatment is afforded.
The standard is imminent danger of harm to self or others, not harm to property (since you mentioned that Higa broke windows). I haven't heard any fact-based report that Higa recently threatened or attempted to harm himself or any other person prior to Cyrus Belt. and our mental health system (like our legal system) made a choice not to involuntarily incarcerate people just because people may potentially harm other people unless there is proof that the risk of them harming someone is severe, real and soon to occur (not just a distant possibility ~ distant both respect to time and likelihood). It may come out that our mental health professionals maybe should have known that Matthew Higa was an imminent threat to the safety of others and failed to act appropriately. But I haven't seen any reliable information establishing that so far. I have no idea what any doctors examining Higa recently might have seen or what tests may have been run or how he may have behaved when he was around other people or if anything triggered unexpected reactions from Higa and set him off to kill Cyrus.
One might argue that anyone using illicit drugs, as Higa was alleged to have done, is unpredictable and potentially dangerous but sadly, I don't think we have the space and resources to incarcerate all drug users in Hawaii indefinitely until we're sure they will never ever use drugs again.
Wasn't there a recent movie (at least one movie) in which the people of that society decided to run risk analyses and preemptively incarcerate people who were deemed to have a higher risk of possibly committing a crime even if they didn't commit a crime? That's the kind of society we decided not to become. Everyone may potentially harm themselves or someone else and how would any of us prove that we will never harm ourselves or anyone else before any actual incident in which the harm may occur? We decided, as a society, that mentally ill people do not automatically lose their civil rights and their Constitutional rights just because they are mentally ill. Hard as this sounds, we decided, as a people, that we'd rather err on the side of risking some harmful people going free than err on the side of risking keeping some innocent people prisoner. We decided that before we can force someone to undergo medical treatment or take medication or be held against their will, a high standard has to be met to show that our right to force those people outweighs any rights those people may have. And you're right, deciding how imminent is imminent and how serious a potential threat of harm may be is not an easy task.
Every time a tragedy like this occurs, there is a rush to change our laws and procedures, make new laws and procedures, to make sure it never happens again. Certainly any improvement that can be made, should be made. We should all make efforts to try to prevent violence against people. But I keep coming back to the thought that we have laws and procedures and people who abuse or kill other people are people who don't care that we have laws and procedures and also that no legislation and no policy will prevent someone from killing another person if they're determined to kill that other person. Humans ~ we just can't guarantee no matter what we do that we will never hurt ourselves or each other.
Originally posted by GeckoGeek
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"Dangerous to others" means likely to do substantial physical or emotional injury on another, as evidenced by a recent act, attempt or threat.
"Dangerous to property" means inflicting, attempting or threatening imminently to inflict damage to any property in a manner which constitutes a crime, as evidenced by a recent act, attempt or threat.
"Dangerous to self" means the person recently has threatened or attempted suicide or serious bodily harm; or the person recently has behaved in such a manner as to indicate that the person is unable, without supervision and the assistance of others, to satisfy the need for nourishment, essential medical care, shelter or self-protection, so that it is probable that death, substantial bodily injury, or serious physical debilitation or disease will result unless adequate treatment is afforded.
The standard is imminent danger of harm to self or others, not harm to property (since you mentioned that Higa broke windows). I haven't heard any fact-based report that Higa recently threatened or attempted to harm himself or any other person prior to Cyrus Belt. and our mental health system (like our legal system) made a choice not to involuntarily incarcerate people just because people may potentially harm other people unless there is proof that the risk of them harming someone is severe, real and soon to occur (not just a distant possibility ~ distant both respect to time and likelihood). It may come out that our mental health professionals maybe should have known that Matthew Higa was an imminent threat to the safety of others and failed to act appropriately. But I haven't seen any reliable information establishing that so far. I have no idea what any doctors examining Higa recently might have seen or what tests may have been run or how he may have behaved when he was around other people or if anything triggered unexpected reactions from Higa and set him off to kill Cyrus.
One might argue that anyone using illicit drugs, as Higa was alleged to have done, is unpredictable and potentially dangerous but sadly, I don't think we have the space and resources to incarcerate all drug users in Hawaii indefinitely until we're sure they will never ever use drugs again.
Wasn't there a recent movie (at least one movie) in which the people of that society decided to run risk analyses and preemptively incarcerate people who were deemed to have a higher risk of possibly committing a crime even if they didn't commit a crime? That's the kind of society we decided not to become. Everyone may potentially harm themselves or someone else and how would any of us prove that we will never harm ourselves or anyone else before any actual incident in which the harm may occur? We decided, as a society, that mentally ill people do not automatically lose their civil rights and their Constitutional rights just because they are mentally ill. Hard as this sounds, we decided, as a people, that we'd rather err on the side of risking some harmful people going free than err on the side of risking keeping some innocent people prisoner. We decided that before we can force someone to undergo medical treatment or take medication or be held against their will, a high standard has to be met to show that our right to force those people outweighs any rights those people may have. And you're right, deciding how imminent is imminent and how serious a potential threat of harm may be is not an easy task.
Every time a tragedy like this occurs, there is a rush to change our laws and procedures, make new laws and procedures, to make sure it never happens again. Certainly any improvement that can be made, should be made. We should all make efforts to try to prevent violence against people. But I keep coming back to the thought that we have laws and procedures and people who abuse or kill other people are people who don't care that we have laws and procedures and also that no legislation and no policy will prevent someone from killing another person if they're determined to kill that other person. Humans ~ we just can't guarantee no matter what we do that we will never hurt ourselves or each other.
~
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