Toddler thrown onto freeway

[infinitypro]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

I know I'm not the only one whose unusually sensitive.

No you're not. I'm right there with you.

[pzarquon]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

But hey, that's cool. Hopefully, others will "get it."

I'm sorry you still feel so combative. Obviously I misunderstood the target of scrivener's ire, and you have clarified that when you wrote:

Your outrage, concerns, and balloons/gifts for Cyrus are all a day late and a dollar short. [...] Oh, I know. The public's reactions to this incident and their contributions to the overpass memorial are all well-intentioned and sincere. But if you want to get right down to it, none of it does Cyrus any good at this point. He's gone from this world and nothing that anyone does will ever bring him back. That may sound sound harsh, but it's true.

That you were not being in any way dismissive of the people visiting and leaving gifts. I was clearly imagining things. And so I said, hey, I'm in complete agreement with you, and always was. People are sad, and Something Must Be Done™.

Obviously this case and this issue is upsetting to everyone, and we're all responding in different ways. I know I'm not the only one whose unusually sensitive.

[tutusue]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Horrible murders happen every day. Many happen because of a drug or illness or abuse or lack of supervision or mistake by the authorities. This one just happens to be unusual in the way it was done.

Baby Cyrus' death was attributable to all of those.

[SusieMisajon]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Horrible murders happen every day. Many happen because of a drug or illness or abuse or lack of supervision or mistake by the authorities. This one just happens to be unusual in the way it was done.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

My ultimate point is that people expressing grief does not necessarily imply that they're not enlightened or not aware of the larger issues or not trying to do something about saving the lives of at-risk kids. The fundamental impression I've gotten is that mourning by the public is a waste of time and energy, and I don't agree with that.

Well, if you read my post and the thought that popped into your mind at the end is "mourning by the public is a waste of time and energy," all I can say is that you're willfully misinterpreting and have totally missed the main point of what I was trying to get across, which is the attention that at-risk children living today deserves.

But hey, that's cool. Hopefully, others will "get it."

[pzarquon]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Oh dear.

One, I read Mitchell's blog post and mention of "outpouring of sentiment" as a commentary on people who felt moved by Cyrus' death, and not -- as he has clarified -- critics of CPS. But that's the context in which I posited him delivering his "shut the **** up" message.

Two, you invoked the mourners in your response to Mitchell's post, saying, "balloons/gifts for Cyrus are all a day late and a dollar short," noting that the message is "harsh," but explaining that "none of it does Cyrus any good at this point. He's gone from this world and nothing that anyone does will ever bring him back." To that, specifically, my reply was, I don't think anyone mourning his death or paying their respects at Miller Street is trying to do him any good or trying to bring him back. They can't change the past, but they're affected by it. They're simply saddened by his death and trying to express that.

Is it too much to ask for people to direct just a tiny bit of the concerns they display towards Cyrus Belt and Peter Boy Kema towards children who are living on the fringe right now?

No. My ultimate point is that people expressing grief does not necessarily imply that they're not enlightened, or not aware of the larger issues, or not trying to do something about saving the lives of currently at-risk kids. The impression I got from Mitchell's blog post (now corrected) and from your "harsh" truth is that mourning by the public is a waste of time and energy, and I don't agree with that. You've now also clarified that you don't see anything wrong with it, in which case, we're in total agreement, and probably always were.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

I don't think anyone whose gone to Cyrus' memorial is trying to help him, or make a policy or political statement. These are people simply expressing grief, however they know how. I try to imagine our dear scrivener going there, catching a group of school kids or a young family, and telling them to "shut the **** up and pay some social workers." How is that productive? That's more than not feeling anything for this kid's death, as he suggests. That's judging and criticizing people who are wrestling with something within them. Not everyone is trying to solve all the wrongs in the world at every moment.

If a teacher died, and a memorial sprouted up at the school's cafeteria, would you wag your finger and say, "Get over it, you should've made education a priority before this happened!" If a coworker lamented hitting a cat on the drive to work, would you say, "Quit yer sobbing, there are bigger problems out there than roadkill!" Do all mourners need to be "shaken up.

Woah!! You loaded up my post with a whole lot of sentiments that I was NOT expressing or intending.

First of all, what I wrote was NOT a statement against the concept of expressing grief. It is natural for people to express grief over the death of a loved one. For people who knew Cyrus BEFORE he died or was a friend/relative of the families involved, it is totally understandable for them to grieve over his death.

Even for people who did not personally know him or his family until that tragic day,... if they personally felt touched by his death and wanted to express their grief in some tangible way,... nowhere did I say that anything was WRONG with that. Implying that I (or anybody else on HT) advocated swearing at people who are mourning,... man, that's laying it on a just a little bit thick, don't you think?

What I was trying to get across was the idea that while a lot of public attention and concern has been going out to the children who have suffered tragic ends (like Cyrus and Peter Boy), nowhere near enough attention has gone to the at-risk children who are still with us and for whom there is still hope.

I noticed that in all of your post, you mention not a whit about the point I was making about the general public's indifference towards the at-risk population. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

[scrivener]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

I normally organize my thinking better, but that night I was just getting some thoughts down so I could get to sleep...I didn't even know they were all going to be about that one subject; I kinda expected to write a few things about the latest Bruce Springsteen album, but it just never went there. I wrote the title last, something I often do when I haven't sat down to write with one particular thing in mind.

I don't take back what I said about feeling strangely unaffected, but I wouldn't tell people who are affected to shut up about THAT.

[pzarquon]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

For the record, I would like to say that "shut the **** up" is aimed at people wanting to blame CPS, not at people who are mourning.

I didn't get that impression at all, and I think Frankie's Market similarly interpreted your essay. Your set up seems to be, "I'm just not moved," and the crux is, "I don’t think it’s that I’m unfeeling: I think I’m responding in some way to the outpouring of sentiment." I read that as the outpouring of grief, not the outpouring of criticism of CPS.

And from my own observations, while CPS is getting a fair share of knocks, I'm actually surprised the agency isn't the all-in scapegoat I was expecting it to be. As I said way back in this thread, there were forces aligned to protect this kid, and we essentially wish they did their job better -- and yes, to do so, they need more support.

[tutusue]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

A day or 2 after the Xerox murders in, what...1999?...I felt compelled to pay my respect but was clueless on how to do that. So, all I could think of was to place a lei on the wall outside the front door of the building. It was one of many. For some strange reason that brought some peace...just a little.

While driving on the freeway last Saturday I was approaching the Miller St. overpass and could see the memorial and it's visitors. I was overcome with a major case of misty eyes. I wanted to visit the memorial but couldn't bring myself to do it. I think that's due to a child being involved.

So, this morning I viewed PZ's blog and video. I had the same reaction as I did on the freeway.

Enter bathroom. Reapply mascara.

[scrivener]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

For the record, I would like to say that "shut the **** up" is aimed at people wanting to blame CPS, not at people who are mourning.

[pzarquon]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Saying "shut the **** up and pay some social workers" is one way of shaking people up. My way is frankly saying, "Your outrage, concerns, and balloons/gifts for Cyrus are all a day late and a dollar short."

I don't think anyone whose gone to Cyrus' memorial is trying to help him, or make a policy or political statement. These are people simply expressing grief, however they know how. I try to imagine our dear scrivener going there, catching a group of school kids or a young family, and telling them to "shut the **** up and pay some social workers." How is that productive? That's more than not feeling anything for this kid's death, as he suggests. That's judging and criticizing people who are wrestling with something within them. Not everyone is trying to solve all the wrongs in the world at every moment.

If a teacher died, and a memorial sprouted up at the school's cafeteria, would you wag your finger and say, "Get over it, you should've made education a priority before this happened!" If a coworker lamented hitting a cat on the drive to work, would you say, "Quit yer sobbing, there are bigger problems out there than roadkill!" Do all mourners need to be "shaken up"?

What you, Scrivener, and everyone else is saying is completely understandable and logical. Reduce bureaucracy. Invest in better social services. Teach the children well, yada yada yada. I just don't get why those concepts are being positioned as contrary to, or in the same context of, people feeling bad for the death of the kid.

I think that's why I found some sense of perspective when I visited the memorial. At work, at home, here at HT, I'm embroiled in wide-ranging and sometimes heated discussions about priorities and laws and punishments. But however tacky or obnoxious that bridge has become, it's a place where I felt nothing else but sorrow. And that kind of clarity was nice. I wouldn't leave a bag of gummy bears or a four-foot-tall stuffed Pooh, but I wouldn't swear at someone who did, either.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Our very own deep thinker scrivener has weighed in on Cyrus Belt's death and the city's response to it on his blog. He's unmoved, as he explains in the entry titled, "Shut the **** Up and Pay Some Social Workers":He moves from college football to dry erase markers to illustrate how teachers and CPS workers take too much criticism and get too little support.

I've read it too. Good stuff.

Saying "shut the **** up and pay some social workers" is one way of shaking people up. My way is frankly saying, "Your outrage, concerns, and balloons/gifts for Cyrus are all a day late and a dollar short."

Oh, I know. The public's reactions to this incident and their contributions to the overpass memorial are all well-intentioned and sincere. But if you want to get right down to it, none of it does Cyrus any good at this point. He's gone from this world and nothing that anyone does will ever bring him back. That may sound sound harsh, but it's true.

But what me, Scriv, and others have been saying about hiring more social workers, paying them better, and giving them all the necessary resources and support so that they can do their jobs,..... these are the kinds of things that will do the most to help all of the thousands of at-risk children who are still living today. For these kids, it is not too late. Is it too much to ask for people to direct just a tiny bit of the concerns they display towards Cyrus Belt and Peter Boy Kema towards children who are living on the fringe right now? Or do those disadvantaged kids have to wait until they are dead and have their names/pictures plastered on the headlines until anyone does anything for them?

[EastCoastTropics]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

correct, you did not; my intent was not to imply that you made that implication, either. my apologies for not being clearer on that (it didn't help that i was posting on the mobile version of HT at the time so i could not be so detailed).

No prob....

i agree with pzarquon's post in the sense that sometimes we focus on the small things to the detriment of larger things, and so i wanted to refocus on the "larger things."

I agree and I also I think focus should be on making certain that the job gets done.

Reading the HA..."Lingle said her administration is proposing a bill that would require family members to report child abuse or neglect. The administration also wants to spend $1.9 million on additional follow-up visits to children who been identified as at risk of abuse." Yes, this is a start, and like Ipo, I too agree with scrivener in that more social workers should be hired/paid more in order to do their jobs effectively.

Also, as scrivener stated, "who are the state legislators you've identified as having consistently been supportive or proactive in advocating for the needs of children? Which would you say have been most harmful?" http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthr...800#post181800


Good point...I'd wanna know too.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Sorry, but I didn't state in any of my posts that a covered bridge could've prevented this boys death. Nor did I imply that it would.

I originally brought up the topic because as I stated, I noticed the lack of fencing in comparison to the pedestrian and overpasses local to me. As a former engineer, structures catch my eye.

correct, you did not; my intent was not to imply that you made that implication, either. my apologies for not being clearer on that (it didn't help that i was posting on the mobile version of HT at the time so i could not be so detailed).

i agree with pzarquon's post in the sense that sometimes we focus on the small things to the detriment of larger things, and so i wanted to refocus on the "larger things."