Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

[Serenity]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

First things first, Serenity. Don't worry about your landlord until you have a justifiable reason. So...
#1 - find out what your fridge's temp. reading is...
#2 - get the model # of your fridge, call Sears and ask if it's supposed to be frost-free.

That's all you need to do for now. Nothing more. Don't think beyond the completion of #1 and #2. Those results will dictate what your next step should be.

Keep in mind, your landlord is not required to provide you with the refrigerator/freezer of your choice; only a fridge in working order. Let's see if it's working appropriately before you go any further. Again, first things first.

it is actually a Manual frost, & NOT a Frost free fridge . & I posted the model # above but I will do it again this 2nd time. The Model # for our crappy fridge is:461.62302

AND we did go out today to Sears Ala Moana Shopping Center, & we forgot to look into into a Thermometer *Doh!!* , plus we were so hungry, we ate thereafter, & also my hubby had another appointment he had to go to, & no time to research for a thermometer in the mall, so we left thereafter . hopefully during the week. sigh. we did find another fridge BUT, it is a few inches taller than what we were looking for originally. I think it is 60 3/8 inch than a 57 to 58 inch :-( sigh. in height . Maybe we'll try to see next month again, if they have anything new (I hope ).

[Serenity]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

My, you have AMEX???? Be careful, with no credit limit you can get into deep Kim Chee!

Work with your landlord, tell her you appreciate her efforts, but that SEARS is cheating her with a defective product! Bring her over and show her. Tell her you are trying to protect HER interests, as any next tenant would reject a unit with a defective fridge. Let her know how happy you are living there, and that this is an unusual situation. Befriend her; show your aloha.

Work with the other agencies as well. I know they take too much time and act like you are annoyance, but persistence pays off!!! (I know, personally!)

SEARS tries to be responsible, but their employees are bounded by stupid rules. Go over their head. Talk to a manager, or a manager's manager. Go to the top if you have to! They want a good reputation, and if you threaten to sully their reputation (such as, my friend Kaonohi wanted to buy a refrigerator, but my experience has him shopping for other brands), they may pay more attention.

In general, I have received exemplary service from SEARS, and I think this may be a misunderstanding. Keep climbing that corporate ladder until you achieve satisfaction.

Tell them: "Do you want this defective equipment to represent what we buy at Sears??"

If you say it in he right way, they will listen; their reputation depends on it.

Keep us appraised,

Thanks , I think I will have to talk to Sears again about what you said, & also will deeply keep in mind of what you said about the land lady. I went passed the 90 days warranty, & I was not informed of it & the Sears Guys did not leave me their receipts, I think they either sent it to &/or gave to the land lady. So there is no way I could get it replaced :-(. Regardless if it was not my fault or not. sigh. So, I we are un able to get it replaced at all, & only one year of service :-(. sigh. although, when it comes to appliances & such, I am afraid to talk to her etc., cuz she had a tendency to bite my head off :-(. I can't handle that :-(. So, I just call her son in Law to talk to her for me. BUT today, my hubby did talk to the land lady, & she said that the sears guy said there was nothing wrong with the fridge & it's fine. So, what can my hubby do? ONLY to agree with her, cuz he didn't want to say anything else back that may give him another heart attack; that's what my hubby said. sigh. oh well. Maybe we'll just find another route to all this perhaps, I guess. we will have to see next month perhaps. Right now, we don't have the financial means to actually get any new fridge :-(.

perhaps we can start a support group!

Thanks. I hope so too .

[tutusue]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

Serenity...you can buy a fridge thermometer at Longs, grocery stores, Walmart, K-Mart, Target, etc.

When using the thermometer, IF the temp reads above 40 degrees while the temp control is set to coldest, then you have a legitimate complaint. Should that be the case, let us know and we'll give you the next step to take. Remember...one step at a time.

We didn't need the model #. You needed that info to call Sears and it appears you did that and found out the fridge is manual frost. Not ideal but the landlady only has to provide a fridge in working order. She's already complied by having a repairman check it out. He said it didn't need repairing. But, you also mentioned he didn't check the temperature which I find very odd. You really don't know if the fridge is defective or not at this point. This is your chance to inexpensively check the temp for yourself. I always keep a thermometer in my fridge to monitor, on a daily basis, any temperature fluctuations.

Right now you're getting way too far ahead of yourself. You're taking the situation into a worst case scenario and stressing yourself out. All you need to be concerned about right now is the temperature on the coldest setting. Nothing more. Again, if it turns out your only complaint is you don't like the fridge, the landlady is not responsible for that and you really shouldn't discuss that with her. She's done what the landlord-tenant code requires.

[Amati]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

She's done what the landlord-tenant code requires.

AND, check the lease. If the lease does not specify that the unit includes a fridge, then the landlord is not under obligation to provide one nor to repair an existing one.

A rental does not always come with fridges, it is not mandatory that a landlord provide one. What is required:

Prior to the initial occupancy, the landlord must inventory the premises and make a written record detailing the condition of the premises and all furnishings and appliances provided.

If it is not listed in the lease, be careful how much "push" you give the landlord. We already have one HTer who has made their landlord mad enough that the landlord wants them out.

[tutusue]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

Great point, Amati. As a landlord, I always provided a fridge. Ditto, my dad. It's been a long time since I've dealt with a lease.

[matapule]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

Great point, Amati. As a landlord, I always provided a fridge. Ditto, my dad. It's been a long time since I've dealt with a lease.

As a former residential landlord, I never provided a fridge......for the very reasons discussd in this thread. I always referred tenants to furniture leasing companies who would provide a fridge on a month to month rental basis.

[tutusue]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

As a former residential landlord, I never provided a fridge......for the very reasons discussd in this thread. I always referred tenants to furniture leasing companies who would provide a fridge on a month to month rental basis.

My experience is that it's more common for landlords to furnish appliances in Hawaii, matapule. My dad's rentals were in SoCal and I remember how thankful tenants were to rent one of his units due to the inclusion! And, if a fridge needed replacing in the midst of a lease, my dad would give them a budget and let them buy the fridge of their choice. If the tenant wanted a higher end appliance and was willing to pay the difference, that was fine. But the fridge stayed in the unit when the tenant moved, per the lease. I never had to replace one mid-lease and repairs were always handled immediately per the local law.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

The symptoms you describe happening to your refrigerator indicates several possibilities. And this is assuming the door seals are clean and in working order.

1) Defective thermostat (located in the refrigerated section not the freezer)
2) Defective fan (draws cold air from the freezer into the refrigerated section)
3) Items in Freezer blocking intake vents to the refrigerated section.

If anyone of these issues are apparent you will get those symptoms you described.

The most obvious is item #3 with too much stuff in the freezer blocking the intake vent to the refrigerator. You must keep all vents clear in order for refrigerators to function normally.

A defective fan is the next possibility. If the cold air from the freezer cannot make it's way to the refrigerator, the the freezer will keep the compressor running (ultimately icing up the freezer section) while the refrigerated section does not get colder.

A defective thermostat (located in the refrigerated section) will never tell the compressor to shut down if it doesn't sense a cold enough temperature in the refrigerated section, causing the freezer to ice up.

Here's how a refrigerator works: The compressor compresses freon and runs it thru a condenser that allows the gas to expand. This causes the condenser coils to begin to cool down. (white frosted coils in the freezer) This provides the chilling action to bring the temperatures down to freezing in the freezer section. This cold air is drawn into the refrigerated section via a fan located in ducting between the freezer and refrigerator. Cold air enters the refrigerated section cooling it down. A thermostat mounted in the refrigerator senses this cold air and shuts the compressor down when the desired temperature is achieved (coldness adjustment in your refrigerator).

So if the cold air intake from the freezer is blocked by frozen food, cold air doesn't get into the refrigerator. If cold air doesn't get into the refrigerator, the thermostat (in the refrigerated section) thinks the compressor needs to keep running until it does get cold enough to shut down, which it never will because the cold air intake is blocked.

With the compressor running too long, the freezer gets colder and colder eventually icing up everything including the cold air intake's ducts. You can take out all the frozen food but if the ducts have ice build up inside, it's like a blocked artery. Nothing passes.

So you can see how a defective thermostat, defective fan or even a blocked cold air intake can result in your symptoms you described. In almost every instance of refrigerator failure (as you described) the most common problem is the blockage of the cold air intake due to packing of the freezer of too much stuff.

Some manufacturers have standoffs or grills that don't allow you to block the cold air intake. Some manufactures rely on built in ice makers to keep that area free from obstructions. The problem is that these ice makers sometimes are options and when not installed, results in homeowners packing that area of the freezer, hence...my elderly mother.

What can happen otherwise with a constantly running compressor freezing over the freezer? Higher electric bills and ultimately the burning out of the compressor.

The first step to determining what is at fault is to first defrost the freezer and letting all the built up ice (possibilibly in the cold air intake ducts) melt.

The second step is to run the refrigerator (on max cold) with nothing except a tray of water to make ice cubes in the freezer and a thermometer in the refrigerator.
The cold air intake fan should start to spin (you should hear the fan running along with the compressor). If you don't hear the fan running one of three things are happening. 1) the fan is stuck with ice, 2) the fan motor is burned out because ice kept it from running burning it out, or 3) the fan motor simply died.

The third step is to drink some beer and wait for the refrigerator to cool down. This may take several beers.

The fourth step is to see if you get ice cubes in a few hours and a cold enough temperature in the refrigerated section to keep milk from spoiling. If the refrigerator is cooling down sufficiently, the cold air intake is clear and the fan is running.

The fifth step is to see if the compressor shuts down. If it does then problem solved. If it doesn't check the thermostat and move the dial in the "less colder" direction slowly until the compressor does shut down. If the compressor is running unusually longer than normal and turning the dial warmer shuts it down, then you probably have a defective thermostat.

BUT BEFORE YOU DEFROST THE FREEZER CHECK TO SEE IF YOU ARE BLOCKING THE COLD AIR INTAKE WITH TOO MUCH FOOD. If that's the case you know what the problem is.

[tutusue]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

[...]
BUT BEFORE YOU DEFROST THE FREEZER CHECK TO SEE IF YOU ARE BLOCKING THE COLD AIR INTAKE WITH TOO MUCH FOOD. If that's the case you know what the problem is.

Isn't that something the Sears repairman would've checked?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

depends on whether the owner cleaned out the freezer to accomodate the repairman.

[matapule]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

The most likely reason is that the LL purchased the cheapest non-frost free refrigerator. The refrigerator is likely working fine, just not as expected.

Serenity, what is the model number found on the inside of the refrigerator? We can look up the number to see what the specs are.

[tutusue]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

depends on whether the owner cleaned out the freezer to accomodate the repairman.

At the very least you'd think he'd mention it's importance. My freezer is packed and it'd take me, at the most, 30 seconds to remove everything. I wouldn't remove any food 'til the repairman arrived and requested it. Wouldn't want anything to thaw unnecessarily.

[tutusue]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

The most likely reason is that the LL purchased the cheapest non-frost free refrigerator. The refrigerator is likely working fine, just not as expected.

I agree, except $600 isn't the cheapest fridge. Mine was a hair over $500 and frost free. It sounds like no thought went into the purchase; that someone saw the price tag and bought it. Maybe!

Serenity, what is the model number found on the inside of the refrigerator? We can look up the number to see what the specs are.

Serenity posted the model # already.

[matapule]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

Serenity posted the model # already.

That model number (or item number) is not lsted on Sears Kenmore refrigerator site. Nothing even close. However, some of the less expensive Kenmore refrigerators are manual defrost.

[Serenity]

Re: Regarding our JUNK Fridge!

Quick Reply... (sorry so quick)

The Sears guy did not take the temperature in the fridge, which I found kind of od there after he left (just remembered it afterwords), & we have to have the height of 57 inch in Height by 23.5 in width by 24 inch in diameter at most. I checked in Longs for a Fridge thermometer, & they did not have one . Where can I get one? Most of the time, the Sears stores are limited to their sales in particular height like what we want, yes they have more in the internet, but I would rather have the options of being able to be there & look inside the fridge physically, & not order from the internet, just because they can deliver for free, you know?. I want to be able to be satisfied in what I am buying. I hope in June that we can find one that we like, & unplug the junk one, & just move that junk one out in the patio , & keep the new one in with us.lol. So there!, Mrs. land lady!!. sheesh. well gotta log out, got stuff to do to take care of. Will come back later when I can. Aloha. :-)