Graffitti

[sinjin]

Re: Graffitti

I surely hope that this isn't your defining criteria for "art." Hell, artists are known for choosing what they do over a paycheck, for better or worse.

Worse I suspect. Anyone can call themselves an artist. Until you sell something it's a hobby.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Graffitti

depends... what do you mean by "working with cities" and "opportunities"?

I'm leaving that up to you, actually --- since you are involved with graffiti, and you are fully aware of the debate over art vs. vandalism, I'm hoping to hear that you have suggestions. Do you have constructive ideas as to how taggers and artists can express their creative voices, while not stirring up anger from those who don't want said expressions on their own property...

Mahalo for taking the time to bless us with such profound enlightenment but I think we all are able to read the "please read first" thread! (points for stating the obvious!)

...or are you all snark and no substance?

[pzarquon]

Re: Graffitti

Anyone can call themselves an artist. Until you sell something it's a hobby.

Well, this is a wholly different conversation, but let's just say I strenuously disagree that commercial viability is a litmus test for determining what "art" is. It's subjective, I'll grant you that, but a price tag does not art make. Some would even say that a price tag corrupts art into something else entirely.

Yes I understand I wasn't banned... YET.... but the this type of threat seems ever so popular on the internet when people go against the grain. They like to call it moderation... RULES... whatevers.. but really its suppression.

If you're as much a veteran of message boards and forum life as you seem to be, you should just drop the whole censorship card. Disagreement isn't suppression, and as I said a minority view is fine -- hell, online communities raise devil's advocacy to an art form.

The fact that you can still accuse us of such tactics demonstrates that you still have the opportunity to be heard, so use that opportunity to interact and educate rather than playing the victim card. One user's call for a ban does not equal a campaign of oppression.

You obviously know graffitti and its creators better than most of us. Why aren't they criminals or vandals? Why is public property or someone else's property their chosen canvas, rather than the amply cited examples of where their work is specifically welcomed?

...or are you all snark and no substance?

I'm still trying to find the "please read first" thread he's apparently read. I missed it, and I've been here for a while!

[Kimo's Bruddah]

Re: Graffitti

What dictionary did you get that quote from (complete with poor spelling).

The same one you and the person who started this thread used to spell "graffittti". Its graffiti.. not graffitti! Two "f"s, one "t". Too funny!

Anyway the whole point of graffitti is where the heck you're gonna put the stuff. On your property is okay since it's all the free speech stuff, but when it's on some one elses property or public property then it's a crime. And criminals are not welcomed in any society. So if graffitti artists want to separate themselves from the criminals known as taggers, then they should voice their concerns and really help society get rid of taggers who really are giving graffitti artists a bad rap.

So what is Phyto? The fact that his tagging is all over Moilili on public and not his private property, that makes him a simple criminal and should be treated as one, not as some rebel with a cause.

The last guy I caught tagging my property back in Waialae Nui got his face dripping wet with paint from the same can of aerosol he used to tag seven cars and a couple of homes along my block. You tag me I tag you. So stop it already.

You want to make a statement then do it like Wyland did and make your artwork respectable, not a form of vandalism.

If you want graffitti to be respected then stay away from the likes of Phyto who seems to love marking up other people's property.

Granted, I've seen some remarkable tagging, but I wish these buggahs would do it on a wall where they had permission to do it.

That is fair isn't it?

I totally respect and see your opinion on this but you can't have a cake without the nasty frosty.... essentially you want graffiti art but not graffiti. Sorry that can't happen. They both must co-exist in order for each one to exist.

There are varying degrees of graffiti artists, vandalists, taggers, etc. I for one don't believe in tagging up private property especially cars and/or homes however some do partake in such an annoying thing. Most stick to tax payer, government property i.e. freeways, signs, buses, etc. But really... vandalism has been around for thousands of years... you can't stop those random acts of vandalism as they come around every now and then. I like what you did and believe in the eye for an eye idea.. I tag up yours, you tag up mine.. or my face in that matter. ha! so kudos to getting revenge like that.

For obvious reasons I will not discuss anything about the great Phyto and/or his work. These pigs love to use the internet to catch graffiti artist. I guess they got tired of all the running after us they had to do. Now they can sit in their downtown Honoluluu office with the AC going and eat their next box of glazed doughnuts while they click a mouse to catch us!

[damontucker]

Re: Graffitti

Anyone going over the Ahua St. Overpass bridge from Ft. Shafter into Mapunapuna this morning would have been very shocked to see the entire walkway from one side of the bridge to the other was completely TAGGED!

It must have happened over the weekend...as I use this bridge daily.

[Kimo's Bruddah]

Re: Graffitti

I'm leaving that up to you, actually --- since you are involved with graffiti, and you are fully aware of the debate over art vs. vandalism, I'm hoping to hear that you have suggestions. Do you have constructive ideas as to how taggers and artists can express their creative voices, while not stirring up anger from those who don't want said expressions on their own property

Make graffiti legal.

or are you all snark and no substance?

likewise.. or, based on your last post, should I say you've already proven it!

[damontucker]

Re: Graffitti

For obvious reasons I will not discuss anything about the great Phyto and/or his work. These pigs love to use the internet to catch graffiti artist. I guess they got tired of all the running after us they had to do. Now they can sit in their downtown Honoluluu office with the AC going and eat their next box of glazed doughnuts while they click a mouse to catch us!

Then from what you just said.... are you admitting that you are one of the persons commiting these crimes?

[Kimo's Bruddah]

Re: Graffitti

If you're as much a veteran of message boards and forum life as you seem to be, you should just drop the whole censorship card. Disagreement isn't suppression, and as I said a minority view is fine -- hell, online communities raise devil's advocacy to an art form.

Yeah disagreement isn't suppression.. banning someone off a "forum" because they posted their opinion that doesn't conveniently agree with yours IS. Uh if you're trying to score points for being clever and stating the obvious.... sorry try again!

The fact that you can still accuse us of such tactics demonstrates that you still have the opportunity to be heard, so use that opportunity to interact and educate rather than playing the victim card.

I did not play the victim card.. I played the "this is what happens typically" and "this is a perfect example of..." card. Please read again oh so clever one! I welcome you to use the SAME opportunity as you stated to educate us rather than play the clever, "look what obvious matters I perceive as loop holes I can spend my precious time stating" card, mahalos for that.

One user's call for a ban does not equal a campaign of oppression.

Lemme make this matter more of a spoon fed painted picture for you...

I'm using this miniscule example of me being potentially censored ONCE AGAIN on a supposed open forum as an example to question and ponder as that is directly and I noticed coincidentally related to the ignorant complaints of graffiti on this thread. Maybe your clever marbles weren't working there.. its ok.

You obviously know graffitti and its creators better than most of us. Why aren't they criminals or vandals? Why is public property or someone else's property their chosen canvas, rather than the amply cited examples of where their work is specifically welcomed?

Who said anything about not being criminals or vandals? What makes them "criminals" or "vandals" is the system that tells society that what these people do is so called bad subject to exile cause it infringes on your precious capitalist based agenda.

Why is any medium or media an artist's chosen venue is just a preference... ask the artist for that answer. Different artist.. different reasons.

Where in Hawai'i are there ample city examples of where their work is specifically welcomed? Last I seen it was far from ample.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Graffitti

The same one you and the person who started this thread used to spell "graffittti". Its graffiti.. not graffitti! Two "f"s, one "t". Too funny!

Ah but I use two "t"s because I want to be different. Yeah right Don't want to be a mold of the establishment right?

You go tell Phyto that his work is beautiful but keep it off of the streets because we (all of us who hold jobs and pay taxes in some form or other) have to pay to have it cleaned up. If Phyto has a job guess what, his hard earned tax dollars is being used to clean up his own mess.

And until there is a distinctiion between vandalism and graffiti, there will never be an acceptance of it as artwork but will always be seen as vandalism.

The day you see this is the day someone vandalizes your property and you feel victimized. An eye for an eye, well then you understand revenge and when someone takes revenge on you is when you'll understand why some people hate taggers and hackers and whoever get's their kicks outta messing with other people's lives then running and hiding.

To prove my point, go ahead and tell Phyto to go tag in broad daylight with a thousand witnesses watching and see if he gets the urge to run when the cops come. He's already made the one critical mistake of publishing his works online. That's bold...but pretty stupid too. When Phyto grows up he'll look back and wonder why he did that too. We all do. Heck I wasn't the best child either even as an adolescent, I just never got caught, I ran like a friggin coward...just like Phyto. Stand up and be recognized? Not if you're running away...like I said, "some rebel" yeah great inspiration to all future taggers.

[poinographer]

Re: Graffitti

I think that graffiti artists thrive off of this type of controversy; this style of public verbal "debate" motivates them to carry on. A self-reinforcing loop, it is.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Graffitti

I think that graffiti artists thrive off of this type of controversy; this style of public verbal "debate" motivates them to carry on. A self-reinforcing loop, it is.

Yeah until they read my posts. Nothing reinforcing about what I said, just the simple plain truth.

[pzarquon]

Re: Graffitti

Methinks you're right, Doug. I guess 'twas novel to hear from someone in the trenches, as it were, and I was giving it a shot. But I see things basically going in "it's wrong!/society is wrong!" circles from here (as I probably should have from the beginning), and won't perpetuate it any further.

[1stwahine]

Re: Graffitti

Excuse me. Hello!!!! Wat happened?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I TOLD YA!

Auntie Lynn

[Kimo's Bruddah]

Methinks you're right, Doug. I guess 'twas novel to hear from someone in the trenches, as it were, and I was giving it a shot. But I see things basically going in "it's wrong!/society is wrong!" circles from here (as I probably should have from the beginning), and won't perpetuate it any further.

yeah lets just close our eyes.. I'm sure the problem will go away. Methinks you're brilliant!

Yeah until they read my posts. Nothing reinforcing about what I said, just the simple plain truth.

"they" have read it.. none of them were moved by the false send of truth you love to front of on the subject of graffiti. Nice try!

Until the next time you decide to bless us with your profound enlightenment check your nearest freeway sign or rooftop so you may enjoy their next masterpiece. cheee heeee!

[1stwahine]

Re: Graffitti

Until the next time you decide to bless us with your profound enlightenment check your nearest freeway sign or rooftop so you may enjoy their next masterpiece. cheee heeee!

Make sure you and your pals wear warm clothes cause the winter months are coming. It's darn cold in the calaboose especially prison. Infact, you can't do much drawing inside there. They own your time.

So the next time you mess up a freeway sign or rooftop...enjoy it to the Max. It may just be your LAST.

Yeeehaaaaa!!!

Auntie Lynn