Question about tikis and belief

[Cruisin Angel]

I have a question for all of you... and dont think I'm nutty or anything, but I have so many beliefs that I often wonder where my lines are, if there are any. I'm a very spiritual person and believe very strongly in God. I believe in Angels and miracles..

Well my question is this... Do you all believe inthe spirit of the tikis? Love tiki, Luck tiki, etc. And if you do.... (Because I do), what kind of tiki would be real in this sense? Would the essence be with you if you bought a commercially made tiki keychain for instance...? (Which to me seems like no) Or do you need to recieve one from someone who makes them specially? I don't know how this "works" (Not the right word I know).

I pray daily and I thank God for all life's blessings. ANd I know that I would not have the life I do without him in it. But I also believe in psychics, people who can talk to the dead and even see them, as well as the future.. and full blown fate! But I believe that there is a reason the Tikis have the power they do.

I want to get my daughter a love tiki. And while it may seem silly... she could really use it right now. She is such a special person and has gone through much of what Auntie Lynn has seen.. but at a much younger age. And she came through it all with God. And I know she'll be ok... I just thought of this tiki and her and well..... Why not.

What are your thoughts....?

Sally

[lavagal]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

I guess it's good that you're attempting to do some research; but why not a rosary, a candle, a yoga mat, a zodiac chart, worry beads, a Bible, a mehta tattoo session, chanting or an immersion baptism?

There are solid die-hard religious people who would question why you want to pick and choose religious icons to suit your needs--all the way from the Christians, to Muslims, to Budhists, to Taoists. I think that's valid. We're talking centuries of practices that have brought individuals peace with God, and taught them how to exist within their cultures, how to coexist with other cultures.

You seem to have a healthy respect for all things spiritual. And although it would seem all religions point to One Divine Entity, there exists details that contradict each other. I would think you wouldn't want to assemble a myriad of religious devices that might do spiritual battle?

[alohakat]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

Sally, good questions. I'm not Hawaiian, but....

It's interesting to question whether multiple religious "devices" will confuse or broaden one's viewpoint. I have a little girl that I intend to raise with a look at many of the world's religions. Although they have some contradictory points, most are harmonious, and it is in my humble opinion that religions are somewhat like the 3 blind men describing the proverbial elephant.....one says it's a wall....one says it's like a snake....one says it's like a tree trunk....and all are correct. I'm certain that all the tennants are valid and different because they are looking at the part they can "see."

I'd love to hear more about tiki's and the intentions and perhaps archtypal spirits with which they are infused. I'd think if you bought one from someone who made it with love and the intent that love and wholeness radiate from it, that would be much different than a factory line where no blessings are ever done. And maybe someone can enlighten us as to whether some tiki's are meant to be left where they sit, or "desire" a particular place or surroundings.

Science is proving intent can manifest in experiments. I think we'll be learning that we are less physical than it appears we are. Even the world's great physicists are becoming believers in an unseen all-knowing energy that can be thought-directed. So I say, get her a tiki, but get it from a heartfelt maker, and maybe someone can suggest a little ceremony or chant to welcome it home.

[timkona]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

Mr. Rodgers is an expert in make-believe. Perhaps the answers can be found by watching Public Television.

[Mahi Waina]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

Even the world's great physicists are becoming believers in an unseen all-knowing energy that can be thought-directed. So I say, get her a tiki, but get it from a heartfelt maker, and maybe someone can suggest a little ceremony or chant to welcome it home.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...hawking130.xml

A quote from the above article on a Stephen Hawking speech at Cambridge:

'He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that scientists still have "some way to go" to reach his prediction in his bestselling A Brief History of Time that mankind would one day "know the mind of God" by understanding the complete set of laws which govern the universe.'

Belief in a diety, or in the eternal existence of matter, both rely on a leap of faith. Like Paul Simon sang: 'The information is unavailable to the mortal man.'

[brianca]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

and it is in my humble opinion that religions are somewhat like the 3 blind men describing the proverbial elephant.....one says it's a wall....one says it's like a snake....one says it's like a tree trunk....and all are correct.

That would be valid if the major religions taught that god was 'like' something, but that's not the reality of those teachings. They teach absolutes, not possibilities.

[Pomai]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

Don't forget about the infamous "Tiki Episodes" on the Brady Bunch.

While on Tikis and pop culture, there's also a Tiki currently traveling the world with a Gnome from Puna.

Sorry, didn't answer the question, just throwing in my 2 cent-tences.

[lavagal]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

Kimo, where are youuuuuuuuuuu!

We do have an authority on tikis here on HT, but he's more of a lurker these days.

[alohakat]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...hawking130.xml

A quote from the above article on a Stephen Hawking speech at Cambridge:

'He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that scientists still have "some way to go" to reach his prediction in his bestselling A Brief History of Time that mankind would one day "know the mind of God" by understanding the complete set of laws which govern the universe.'

Belief in a diety, or in the eternal existence of matter, both rely on a leap of faith. Like Paul Simon sang: 'The information is unavailable to the mortal man.'

"This set of laws, which will probably rely on theory that requires more than three dimensions of space and one of time, could be uncovered within 20 years,.... Prof Hawking said that this knowledge may be vital to the human race's continued existence. "

I would say Prof Hawking is betting on the existence of "the mind of God"....

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

The term "tiki" comes with a lot of baggage. Are you talking about a charm, or something whose specific shape is reminiscent of Hawaiian makaki'i? If you want to give your child something to bless her in love, there are options galore. But I would not recommend anything of tiki kitsch. Not as a blessing, anyway.

How I see it: there are tiki, which when celebrated as kitschy doodlidoos are fine for shirts, funky decor, a great mug, or drink swizzlers. The less they look like Kuka'ilimoku and Lono, the more comfortable I am with them, because they aren't representative of sacred genealogy, but are latterday chotzkies. Again, the less they look like a makaki'i, the more harmless they are.

Replicas of true makaki'i wig me out on a deep level, because it mocks the spirit of benevolence, forgiveness and protection that is inherent in one of our most sacred places, Pu'uhonua O Honaunau. In my family history, my gggg-grandparents fled there and recieved its protection; being allowed to live.

My humble suggestion is to get your daughter something beautiful, powerful and baggage-free. Give her something from the heart that celebrates what you two have. What is your ethnicity? Give a talisman that is appropriate to your ancestry.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

Mr. Rodgers is an expert in make-believe. Perhaps the answers can be found by watching Public Television.

"Can you say 'opiate of the masses'? I knew you could." I believe in the power of Fred Rogers, rest his gentle soul.

Sorry - couldn't pass up the opportunity, since most of you already know that I am an atheist. But for those of you of strong faith - how much value do you put upon the physical objects of your faith, as opposed to the inner beliefs of your soul? Do you feel that there is spiritual power in the objects themselves, or is the real source of power somewhere else?

Some religions have holy relics, some would warn you against worship of graven images, some would say that objects can heal, but only because they are conduits for a higher power. I expect that the answers will run the gamut, so take it away...

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

Damn. Where's kimo55 when we need him?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

"Can you say 'opiate of the masses'? I knew you could." I believe in the power of Fred Rogers, rest his gentle soul.

Sorry - couldn't pass up the opportunity, since most of you already know that I am an atheist. But for those of you of strong faith - how much value do you put upon the physical objects of your faith, as opposed to the inner beliefs of your soul? Do you feel that there is spiritual power in the objects themselves, or is the real source of power somewhere else?

Some religions have holy relics, some would warn you against worship of graven images, some would say that objects can heal, but only because they are conduits for a higher power. I expect that the answers will run the gamut, so take it away...

edited because my answer was personal, which isn't very helpful, since this inquiry isn't about testimony, but curiousity. It's all good...

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

edited because my answer was personal, which isn't very helpful, since this inquiry isn't about testimony, but curiousity. It's all good...

Feel free to send me a PM (a PM from PM - heyyy...); you know I would enjoy learning more from your perspective. I also realized that my phrasing of the questions above would not apply equally to all historical structures of belief, spirituality, etc.

[tikiyaki]

Re: Question about Tiki's and belief....

The term "tiki" comes with a lot of baggage. Are you talking about a charm, or something whose specific shape is reminiscent of Hawaiian makaki'i? If you want to give your child something to bless her in love, there are options galore. But I would not recommend anything of tiki kitsch. Not as a blessing, anyway.

How I see it: there are tiki, which when celebrated as kitschy doodlidoos are fine for shirts, funky decor, a great mug, or drink swizzlers. The less they look like Kuka'ilimoku and Lono, the more comfortable I am with them, because they aren't representative of sacred genealogy, but are latterday chotzkies. Again, the less they look like a makaki'i, the more harmless they are.

Replicas of true makaki'i wig me out on a deep level, because it mocks the spirit of benevolence, forgiveness and protection that is inherent in one of our most sacred places, Pu'uhonua O Honaunau. In my family history, my gggg-grandparents fled there and recieved its protection; being allowed to live.

That's a story I'd really love to hear. After visiting there, I find the history of that sacred place is very interesting.