Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

Hopefully some of the Aloha employees can start over.

At the bottom of the seniority pile. That's gonna hurt.

[joshuatree]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

Does anyone know if Aloha's transpacific division was making or losing money? With ATA bowing out, Aloha could have owned Oakland and Santa Ana (Think ATA flew out of Ontario). If AQ's transpacific was making money, they could have simply just folded their interisland ops.

[helen]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

I had the impression that the transpacfic division was not losing money but the papers were saying that it was.

[pzarquon]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

The "Friends of Aloha" have apparently paid for a 30-second commercial paying tribute to the veteran island airline. I caught it during tonight's 6 p.m. newscast on KHON. I gotta admit, even though I didn't fly Aloha often, I got a little misty eyed.

Of course, the farewell message was cut from a longer montage put together to celebrate Aloha Airlines' 60th year.

[tutusue]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

Thanks for the links, PZ. Nostalgic for me and, yes, misty eyes, too. KGMB has been airing an aloha message to Aloha showing the last day, tears, hugs and sadness. It gets me every time I see it.

[Kaukura]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

I just read that Hawaiian is now going to launch Honolulu to Oakland flights starting May 1. Tapping into the recently vacated flights by Aloha AND ATA.
So that makes 3 bay Area airports now. San Francisco, San Jose and now Oakland.

http://sev.prnewswire.com/travel/200...3042008-1.html

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

I just read that Hawaiian is now going to launch Honolulu to Oakland flights starting May 1. Tapping into the recently vacated flights by Aloha AND ATA.
So that makes 3 bay Area airports now. San Francisco, San Jose and now Oakland.

http://sev.prnewswire.com/travel/200...3042008-1.html

Seems to me Hawaiian is the predator now. Aloha is still running farewell commercials and Hawaiian is stripping routes clean off of Aloha's carcass.

Talk about vultures.

[joshuatree]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

I just read that Hawaiian is now going to launch Honolulu to Oakland flights starting May 1. Tapping into the recently vacated flights by Aloha AND ATA.
So that makes 3 bay Area airports now. San Francisco, San Jose and now Oakland.

http://sev.prnewswire.com/travel/200...3042008-1.html

Wow, in many ways, we are finally seeing the merger of Hawaiian and Aloha without all the baggage of unions and seniority because you know Hawaiian will be hiring quite a few ex-Aloha employees to fuel this expansion. Question is, where will Hawaiian find the extra planes needed? I don't think used 767s are easy to come by just yet since the 787 has been delayed. Will Hawaiian acquire ex-ATA 757s? The 757 shares common cockpit ratings with the 767s so training is minimal. And Hawaiian can essentially take over the ex-Aloha, ex-ATA routes with the lighter pax load markets.

[joshuatree]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

Seems to me Hawaiian is the predator now. Aloha is still running farewell commercials and Hawaiian is stripping routes clean off of Aloha's carcass.

Talk about vultures.

Actually I think it's very wise to do so. If you don't, someone else will. And this aggressive expansion will only translate to a better chance for the ex-Aloha employees to get a job in the same field again without leaving the state. So I am fully cheering them on regarding this move. At least HA has a much better mgt team than AQ had.

[helen]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

If Hawaiian is hiring ex-Aloha pilots to fly the Hawaii-Oakland route they might as well get their 737-700 that flew that route too.

[joshuatree]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

If Hawaiian is hiring ex-Aloha pilots to fly the Hawaii-Oakland route they might as well get their 737-700 that flew that route too.

That wouldn't be a smart move because the 767 and 737 don't have cockpit commonality, requiring different training. The 757/767 were designed together and intended to have the same cockpit, just one was a narrowbody, the other a widebody. ATA's 757s would be a better target, that is, if no one has dibs on them yet. Used 757s are in hot demand by UPS and FedEx.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

Actually I think it's very wise to do so. If you don't, someone else will. And this aggressive expansion will only translate to a better chance for the ex-Aloha employees to get a job in the same field again without leaving the state. So I am fully cheering them on regarding this move. At least HA has a much better mgt team than AQ had.

I'm wondering if better management will equate to better treatment of Aloha's employees.

The amazing part is how fast it took for Hawaiian to structure flights on those routes vacated by Aloha...as if they all knew it was going to happen and worked in collusion to "stick it" to go!

I was talking to my wife at dinner (and boy dinner was fantastic!) about ATA.

How could an airline lose a contract during a contract and abruptly call it quits because of losing it?

How was their annual budget going along?

You don't simply lose a contract and suddenly revenue disappears in a flash. Revenue takes time to deminish, enough time to let employees and creditors that you will be ceasing operations on a given date in the near future because of financial difficulties (same goes for Aloha).

The timing of ATA and Aloha ending service so abruptly plus the structuring of routes taken from both airlines by Hawaiian reaks of a three-way collusion conspiracy. With Hawaiian recently taking lease on larger jets to accomodate a yet to see route to the Phillipines and suddenly seeing routes appear from not one but TWO island carriers that suddenly without warning shut operations.

SOMETING SNEAKY IS GOING ON HEA and Hawaiian Airlines seems to be the one coming out smelling like a bouquet of roses.

Let me make this wild but bold prediction: HAL stock will rise tremendously and there will definately be millionaires made from ATA/Aloha airlines demise in the very near future. And I'll even venture to assume that Banmiller has HAL stock. With a presumed golden parachute clause and HAL stock he'll come out amazingly wealthy.

That's my prediction.

[joshuatree]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

It's possible on the collusion theory but I think there's far too many variables to make such a collusion be successfully pulled off. When Aloha folded, ATA could have simply reneged on this collusion plan and taken over Aloha's mainland routes for themselves. ATA had been scaling back flights months before so they were already in hot water themselves. They just probably threw in the towel quickly instead of waiting it out like Aloha did. Now, if we see Banmiller become a Hawaiian employee, then yeah, total conspiracy for sure.

[mel]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

Down the road Hawaiian is going to have to retrain all of their pilots since they plan to eventually retire the Boeing 767 and move on to the Airbus 330 and later 350 models. Perhaps with this expansion and the possible lack of Boeing airplanes (especially 717s), HA may opt to bring new Airbus's including short range A320s into their fold or something else sooner than later.

According to Boeing's website at least 946 767s have so far been made. If Hawaiian is to acquire any of these, they'd have to be the long range models rated for ETOPS.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Aloha Air files bankruptcy, again

Seems to me Hawaiian is the predator now. Aloha is still running farewell commercials and Hawaiian is stripping routes clean off of Aloha's carcass.

Talk about vultures.

Predator? Aloha is already dead. They're just moving into the vacancy. What do you want? Go! to move into the space instead? The faster HA moves in, the less Mesa can make their plan work. Since estimates show that Hawaiian has a lower cost them Go!, it's possible that Hawaiian can give Mesa a taste of their own medicine by pricing low enough that Mesa can't make a profit while Hawaiian can. Clean competition.


Between Aloha and ATA going under, I'd like to see someone else come in, like Virgin. We'll have to see.

The amazing part is how fast it took for Hawaiian to structure flights on those routes vacated by Aloha...as if they all knew it was going to happen and worked in collusion to "stick it" to go!

It's been, what, 4 days since the news broke? How long does it take to set up a new route? Maybe it just shows that Hawaiian's management is on the ball. I think the hardiest part is where to find a plane and crew. But maybe there was enough slack in the schedule to fit it in.

How could an airline lose a contract during a contract and abruptly call it quits because of losing it?

Yeah, that seems a bit odd. It would be interesting to find out what happened. How could this have taken them by surprise?

You don't simply lose a contract and suddenly revenue disappears in a flash.

Why would it take time to diminish? You loose the contract, no more flights, no more revenue. If you can't adjust the costs quickly enough (sell/turn back airplanes and layoff crew) you go under.

As for Aloha, what I've heard is that they were about to get bought out. It was near certain, but fell though. That's why it died so quickly. When you're bleeding money and the bank cuts you off, that's it.

[B]Let me make this wild but bold prediction: HAL stock will rise tremendously

Buy stock then.