Hybrids

[tutusue]

Re: Hybrids

I rode in a Prius for the for the first time yesterday and was amazed that, at a signal, the car shuts off! When my friend took her foot off the brake the car started again and it's not the normal cranking over of the engine we're used to! It's a very cool car.

[jkpescador]

Re: Hybrids

It's been over 6 months now and averaging about 43 MPG. Going uphill really takes a toll on gas. My Uncle borrowed our car one day and go 60 MPG. I still don't know how he does it because he drove the same route that I did ... Mililani ... downtown and back.

The car "told" us it was time to change the oil. Honda said that it's a special oil. It cost $51 to change the oil. There are some hidden expenses owning the car.

We do go to the gas station less frequently as the MPG has double from the old car. We'll see how the tax break figures in.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hybrids

It's been over 6 months now and averaging about 43 MPG. Going uphill really takes a toll on gas. My Uncle borrowed our car one day and go 60 MPG. I still don't know how he does it because he drove the same route that I did ... Mililani ... downtown and back.

The car "told" us it was time to change the oil. Honda said that it's a special oil. It cost $51 to change the oil. There are some hidden expenses owning the car.

We do go to the gas station less frequently as the MPG has double from the old car. We'll see how the tax break figures in.

Perhaps he floored the car before hitting the hill? It does take less work for the car to go uphill if it already has momentum.

As for special oil, I doubt it. Perhaps a less than usual weight of oil but I think they just want maximize profit because not too many people are familiar dealing with two components, the gas and electric one.

But yes, a hybrid actually is not cheaper than a gas efficient car for now without all the tax incentives. Not unless you do drive a LOT of miles annually.

[Kungpao]

Re: Hybrids

also, my cousin whom owned a hybrid told me that resale (trade in) is not so good because the next user will likely have to replace the battery which I've heard is quite costly to do. Lucky (or unlucky) for her it got totalled out in a flood and she was able to go back to a non hybrid vehicle.

[oceanpacific]

Re: Hybrids

Regarding the Honda Civic CRX: the HF was the high-mileage version of the CRX, which was the two-seater in the Civic line-up. The "dream" car was the CRX Si, which had the hot engine with oodles of horsepower.

All CRXs, from the thrifty HF to the racing Si, were classified as "sportscars" by the insurance companies, resulting in a 15% surcharge on insurance premiums. Nothing to do with the engine, but with the configuration of having only two seats.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hybrids

also, my cousin whom owned a hybrid told me that resale (trade in) is not so good because the next user will likely have to replace the battery which I've heard is quite costly to do. Lucky (or unlucky) for her it got totalled out in a flood and she was able to go back to a non hybrid vehicle.

Yep, that's very true. The car itself may have plenty of life left in it but the batteries only have a lifespan of around 10 years at best. So resale will definitely drop as the years go by because whoever buys it needs to factor in how much to replace the batteries and they are not cheap. Infact, the problem with current hybrids is that we need a breakthrough in battery technology. Li Ion batteries are better but right now, they are a lot more expensive too.

Regarding the Honda Civic CRX: the HF was the high-mileage version of the CRX, which was the two-seater in the Civic line-up. The "dream" car was the CRX Si, which had the hot engine with oodles of horsepower.

All CRXs, from the thrifty HF to the racing Si, were classified as "sportscars" by the insurance companies, resulting in a 15% surcharge on insurance premiums. Nothing to do with the engine, but with the configuration of having only two seats.

Yep, thus the invention of the sports car 2+2. Those two puny seats in the back were meant for insurance purposes more than anything else.

[tutusue]

Re: Hybrids

Yep, that's very true. The car itself may have plenty of life left in it but the batteries only have a lifespan of around 10 years at best. So resale will definitely drop as the years go by because whoever buys it needs to factor in how much to replace the batteries and they are not cheap.[...]

I researched buying a hybrid and the battery situation is what stopped me from further consideration. So expensive...around $3k, iirc. A friend of mine owns a Toyota hybrid and loves it. She told me that only a faulty cell gets replaced, not the entire battery. Must admit I didn't look into that as I'd already purchased a car. So, what's up with replacing just a cell? Any truth to that?

[joshuatree]

Re: Hybrids

I researched buying a hybrid and the battery situation is what stopped me from further consideration. So expensive...around $3k, iirc. A friend of mine owns a Toyota hybrid and loves it. She told me that only a faulty cell gets replaced, not the entire battery. Must admit I didn't look into that as I'd already purchased a car. So, what's up with replacing just a cell? Any truth to that?

Yes, that is true. A hybrid's battery system comprises of several cells linked together. So if there is indeed a faulty cell, you can replace one. Sorta like a large Maglite flashlight that takes 4 D cells. You don't need to replace all of them if you can figure out which cell is bad. However, all the hybrid's cells will need to be replaced in about 10 years simply because of wear and tear. We all know from our experiences with cell phones or laptops that over time, the rechargeable battery simply wears out. So if you factor that in, resale value would take a hit as the next buyer needs to consider how much for new batteries.

The truth is, we can build plenty of gas only cars that can easily get 60MPG. But because of safety concerns, image issues, need for performance, we don't get any of those cars in the US. Some countries simply separate traffic, large cargo trucks, away from auto traffic, to increase safety instead of just focusing all the safety on the car itself. Don't know if anyone has heard of the Toyota Aygo but it's a compact sold in Europe. Probably won't meet our "safety" standards but it's a regular 3 cylinder gas engine that gets about 50MPG. The diesel version over 60. No hybrid, no gimmicks, just old fashion fuel efficiency.

[tutusue]

Re: Hybrids

Yes, that is true. A hybrid's battery system comprises of several cells linked together. So if there is indeed a faulty cell, you can replace one. Sorta like a large Maglite flashlight that takes 4 D cells. You don't need to replace all of them if you can figure out which cell is bad. However, all the hybrid's cells will need to be replaced in about 10 years simply because of wear and tear.[...]

Thanks for the explanation. So, if the $3k battery cost is accurate then amortized over 10 years of life, that's $300./yr. for the battery. Yikes!

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hybrids

Yep, that's very true. The car itself may have plenty of life left in it but the batteries only have a lifespan of around 10 years at best. So resale will definitely drop as the years go by because whoever buys it needs to factor in how much to replace the batteries and they are not cheap.

The operative word here is "at best". At this point I'm not sure anyone know the real-life time when they will go. I think it's easily possible that the whole car might get junked when the batteries expire because it's too costly to replace. So much for being "green".

At this point, I'm sure individual cells are being changed. But then the ones gong out now are bad cells. What happens when the whole battery bank weak from age? Somehow I think mixing new and old cells will just create more problems.

Sure glad it's all those rich yuppies that are doing the beta testing on this and not me.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hybrids

It was a CRX HF you turkey. I know this because this was my dream car in high school! Besides the website link could have told you that.

So how is the Yaris? I’m thinking about getting a new car and the Yaris is pretty high up on my list. Cheap, yet good gas mileage from a reliable auto manufacturer. But would like to hear from someone who already owns one.

There was a time when the CRX first came out that it had the Civic namesake. It said Civic on one side with CRX on the other side of the hatchback.

I think it was about the time Honda stopped calling the Civic the CVCC.

[pzarquon]

Re: Hybrids

Thanks, jkpescador, for the real-world observations of hybrid ownership, of particular interest to me, a fellow Mililani resident. Other hybrid drivers I know have the same habit you mention, seeing a drive as a challenge of sorts, adjusting your style to get the highest MPG possible.

I suppose a battery that eventually dies is a concern, but I imagine most drivers don't even keep other new cars for ten years. (Though I buy cars that are already five years old and drive them 'til they die. ) I guess a used hybrid is a dicey proposition, but I don't think battery life is a deal killer in itself if you're shopping for new and high-mileage.

And sure, "smart cars" would be great. But a lot of people do need more space, or simply don't feel comfortable in a little plexiglass egg when there are Hummers all around, even for the best mileage on earth. My mom knows she has to replace her big ol' Buick some day, but it'll be a challenge getting her into a Prius, let alone a Yaris!

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hybrids

Thanks for the explanation. So, if the $3k battery cost is accurate then amortized over 10 years of life, that's $300./yr. for the battery. Yikes!

But remember that quote on the battery price should be compared to the fuel savings. And when you factor in that cost is it really more economical when it comes to fuel costs vs mileage?

I think it really comes down to simply saving the Earth because at $300 per year plus a Hybrid's fuel costs I would assume that to equate to a gas only car's fuel costs.

Then there's the disposal fees for each cell replaced.

Ahh I'll just wait for Mr. Fusion (From Back to the Future II).

Two problems with Hybrids and their batteries when involved in an auto crash is 1) Rescue personnel have been trained to determine what parts of the car cannot be cut with the Jaws of Life due to concerns of electrocution or severe electrical burns from cutting into high amperage wiring. And 2) If the batteries used contain any acid what happens in a crash when acid leaks from the batteries.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hybrids

I think it really comes down to simply saving the Earth because at $300 per year plus a Hybrid's fuel costs I would assume that to equate to a gas only car's fuel costs.

That's on top of the initial premium price for a hybrid. As for the impact on the earth, I think people are only looking at the gasoline they put in the car. The car's total impact from manufacture to disposal is not being considered.

Ultimately, I think hybrids are about making a statement, not about saving money. I also question if they really are planet saving.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hybrids

That's on top of the initial premium price for a hybrid. As for the impact on the earth, I think people are only looking at the gasoline they put in the car. The car's total impact from manufacture to disposal is not being considered.

Ultimately, I think hybrids are about making a statement, not about saving money. I also question if they really are planet saving.

Unfortunately those making those statements sometimes contribute to the very cause they're fighting against. Like driving that rusting Festiva in need of a major tune up to the Global Warming convention.