Rail Transit

[cynsaligia]

Re: Rail Transit

Unless we've decided to build nothing, any solution will have special interests.

I.E. for tollway.

- the company that wins the tollway contract
- the construction industry (remember H3? can be very long too)
- the same unions
- the bus and taxi companies, not just the drivers
- Oahu's auto dealerships
- oil companies
- land owners/developers near the proposed on/offramps for a tollway

I doubt if Hawaii has their attention. It's not even a drop in the bucket for them.

actually, hawaii is a HUGELY disproportionate (considering our relatively small volume) concern for the oil companies. the fact is, hawaii is the oil companies' most profitable market, by Chevron's own admission.

...read the following colloquy from the deposition of a Chevron executive named Traeger taken during the state's 1998 lawsuit. His answers to questions by the state's lawyer reveal how good business was for Chevron in Hawai'i:

Q. Now, Hawai'i was a very profitable gasoline market for Chevron, was it not, sir?

A. It was.

Q. One of the most profitable in the country most of the time?

A. It was.

Q. In fact, the most profitable in the country most of the time?

A. I believe that's a fair statement.

State lawyers also found that although Hawai'i made up only 3 percent of Chevron's national gasoline market — it accounted for a whopping 23 percent of its annual profits in gasoline sales!

In other words, ChevronTexaco squeezed the people of a small state with a population of 1.2 million for 23 percent of its profits! There are approximately 294 million Americans living among the other 49 states. Exact numbers are not available, but ChevronTexaco, the world's second-biggest oil company, serves most of them.

source

yep, our drop in the bucket (3% of volume) translates into huge moneybags - nearly a quarter of all of Chevron's profits. so i'd say that any large-scale gas-saving solution in hawaii - like rail - would undeniably have the oil companies' assiduous attention.

[sansei]

Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei and im hoping this is the correct place to post my one question even though it was in the news on Khon and my one question since i missed it about the rail transit that i didnt get to hear what the people who oppose the rail and it had something to do with Councilman Romy C and if anyone may help me to learn what was said on the khon 2 news at 6:00 Pm,i'd truly appreciate your help very much,please?

Well thank's for your time

[Random]

Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei and im hoping this is the correct place to post my one question even though it was in the news on Khon and my one question since i missed it about the rail transit that i didnt get to hear what the people who oppose the rail and it had something to do with Councilman Romy C and if anyone may help me to learn what was said on the khon 2 news at 6:00 Pm,i'd truly appreciate your help very much,please?

Well thank's for your time

You mean this article?

Protesters gathered along Salt Lake Boulevard Sunday.

“Call Romy, kill rail,” protestors said.

[sansei]

Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei and one topic more about rail,now that they are voting on what type of rail that we should have,i agree with our mayor that steel on steel would be appropiate and not Rubber on Concrete or Monorail is remember that in Vegas that The Monorail didnt work so well since it had engine problem's and the one that was once in Pearlridge center,that also had problem's and another one that the news mentioned,isnt able to think of it only this one i wouldnt agree to it's maganetic levitation so I thought to share my Thought's with everyone.

well thank's for your time

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Rail Transit

And what if you can't find job near your current residence but in another district? You give tax incentive for companies and business to move, what about something for the workers to move closer to their workplace?

Well, you're gonna have to offer up a very hefty tax incentive to say, hotel and restaurant employees to get them to live in Waikiki or Kahala.

Just keepin' it real.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Rail Transit

So if you had a bus route that literally went to your doorstep or within a block, took you to rail, and then a bus that drops you at your work, you be interested?

Given that most of my route is mauka/makai, rail isn't an issue. Now, assuming that I no longer need my car at work, I'd sure give it some thought. But it would depend in part if I had to stand in a crowded bus and what kind of crowd I was in.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You say that treating them like cattle won't work, yet by privatizing it, you're just separating the prize cows from us "common herd" (the regular bus riders). Now I know you want car owners to keep their cars home during the workdays, but your statement sounds elitist, IMNSHO.

I think there's money to be made to cater to the executive (your prize cows) and it will succeed where public transit will NOT get them out of their cars. But I also think more people would take mass transit if one can strip out the slimy types from the ridership. Politically correct? Not at all. But my interest is to get mass transit to WORK without spending a fortune. And that means tackling any issue the general public has with our existing system.

[dick]

Re: Rail Transit

But I also think more people would take mass transit if one can strip out the slimy types from the ridership.

Do you really think that can happen? Mass transit is meant for "the masses" and that means everyone from company presidents on down to bums in the street.

You can't "strip out the slimy types." What is this, a country club?

What you can do is (as I've mentioned before) make certain cars in the train more expensive for those who want to ride away from the riff-raff (the "slimy types, if you will), and the rest of the train converted to cattle cars for everyone else (who can deal with "slimy types").

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Rail Transit

You can't "strip out the slimy types." What is this, a country club?

What you can do is (as I've mentioned before) make certain cars in the train more expensive for those who want to ride away from the riff-raff (the "slimy types, if you will), and the rest of the train converted to cattle cars for everyone else (who can deal with "slimy types").

First you say I can't do it and then you proceed to say it can be done. If you want to get the bulk of the car ridership out of their cars (the whole point of rail, no?) then you need to strip out the "bums in the street" from the working stiffs/office staff class.

How is your idea of a more expensive car that much different then my idea of buses that charge for ridership? The idea is the same. Charge enough to keep out the lowest class while keeping it cheap enough for the bulk. As for the "bums in the street", they still have TheBus. Why is your idea only workable on rail and not on buses?

It looks to me like we can subsidize a middle class bus system for a lot less then rail.

[salmoned]

Re: Rail Transit

Hurray! Mufi threatened to shut down the rail project (if steel on steel isn't approved). This is a bright ray of hope for those of us against this 5 billion dollar boondoggle.

[Karen]

Re: Rail Transit

AMEN!! Salmoned, you nailed it.

Watching Mufi on KGMB last night my first thought was how the council needs to force vote on one of the options he doesn't want, and force his hand at totally cancelling the rail! Don't want it, don't need it....

growing up in Texas I cannot remember if it is Dallas, Houston or which big city has the double-decker hiways, but that remains Oahu's answer to bad traffic. We all get to keep our autos, privacy, and if H1 alone were double decker we'd all be so less stressed, and not running late so often.

[turtlegirl]

Re: Rail Transit

Less stressed? Double decker highways totally stress me out!! The crazy on and off ramps, the confusing signage, the people who don't understand what 'merge' or 'yield' mean...Aaargh!

I have driven in Dallas and Houston recently. Truly the scariest freeway system I have ever been on.

I want rail to get me out of my car!! Driving downtown is awful!! I don't even care what the wheels are made of, so long as they do something!

Rail availability is probably the only thing I miss from the mainland...I rode the bus and rail to and from work and auditions every day for a year (lost license due to tickets - bummer) and while it sucked, I was so grateful to have it. Yeah, I often sat next to some crazy crackhead, but it was really no big deal to me.

I continued to do it even after I got my license back. Especially for 'Hollywood Nights', out on the town. Nobody likes a DUI! Even my most elitestreluctant friends would hop on the bus or rail with me. It was a wonderful option to have!

[sansei]

Re: Rail Transit

Hi This is sansei and i myself applauds our mayor for not giving up on our soon to be rail tranisit since we need it and it'll be good steel on steel and i agree with our mayor that i wouldnt wish for rubber on concrete or magnetic levitation and when the rail is finally built,it'll be good to have a different type of transportation other than having traffic gridlock or something worse and this way our air would be better and cleaner without all of the gas fume's from the car and since our neighborhood isnt able to have rail,i'd settle for our bus system like our neigborhood and other's who arent able to have rail only for those on the other side of the island,i say great for Rail.

Well thank's for your time

[Keanu]

Re: Rail Transit

Hi This is sansei and i myself applauds our mayor for not giving up on our soon to be rail tranisit since we need it and it'll be good steel on steel and i agree with our mayor that i wouldnt wish for rubber on concrete or magnetic levitation and when the rail is finally built,it'll be good to have a different type of transportation other than having traffic gridlock or something worse and this way our air would be better and cleaner without all of the gas fume's from the car and since our neighborhood isnt able to have rail,i'd settle for our bus system like our neigborhood and other's who arent able to have rail only for those on the other side of the island,i say great for Rail.

Well thank's for your time

Sansei, the mayor has no plans of giving up his transit project.

It'll be interesting to see what happens at Wednesday's special Council meeting when a motion to reconsider Bill 80 will be voted on. If Council passes the motion to reconsider the bill to select the transit technology for Honolulu's fixed guideway system, Council will have the chance to choose between 3 floor drafts of the existing bill; one which selects rubber tire on cement, another which selects rubber tire on cement and magnetic levitation, and the last one which selects the mayor's preference, steel wheel on steel rail. A final vote on Bill 80 will take place after Council discusses the options. However, if the motion to reconsider fails, Bill 80 is dead.

Council reserved the right to select the transit technology when it passed Bill 79 (2006) but it must pass such a bill before the city administration issues a public notice soliciting proposals for work that includes designing the transit system. If Council does not pass a transit technology bill by this time, the decision of the "expert" panel selecting steel wheel on steel rail will be the technology unless council introduces another bill. Pissed off at the Council, Mayor Hanneman sent a letter yesterday to councilmembers declaring that he has instructed the department of transportaion services to proceed with the steel technology in preparation of the draft EIS. Therefore, Council has untill July 17 to pass a transit technology bill or the mayor will get what he wants.

Sansei, you do know that the steel on steel technology will be powered by electricity which HECO creates by burning fossil fuel, right?

You should also realizes that this rail project will NOT alleviate traffic.

[Karen]

Re: Rail Transit

Turtlegirl, with all due respect I just don't get it, I don't understand how double deckers can stress you. When you are on one it's just driving on a hiway. You are either on the top of two levels and unaware of the other, or you are below it and it's just driving under something, uh....and as for merging and all...how's it different than merging with drivers anywhere else? Oahu has a ton of people that don't merge well. I think every busy area does.

Problem with rail is that you are in the minority of people that it will actually "get you out of" your car. Most of us will not adapt to the schedule of the rail, we like the privacy of our own cars and not having to meet a bus or rail schedule. Rail is going to cost way more than they claim, have breakdown issues, etc, and most of all it is not going to be as full as our buses, not by far.

I suspect we'll all ride the rail once just to experience it since we paid for it, but it is not, absolutely is not going to fix the crowding problems in our traffic. Shame on Mufi for being determined to do it HIS way and challenge the council like he has.

Less stressed? Double decker highways totally stress me out!! The crazy on and off ramps, the confusing signage, the people who don't understand what 'merge' or 'yield' mean...Aaargh!

I have driven in Dallas and Houston recently. Truly the scariest freeway system I have ever been on.

I want rail to get me out of my car!! Driving downtown is awful!! I don't even care what the wheels are made of, so long as they do something!

Rail availability is probably the only thing I miss from the mainland...I rode the bus and rail to and from work and auditions every day for a year (lost license due to tickets - bummer) and while it sucked, I was so grateful to have it. Yeah, I often sat next to some crazy crackhead, but it was really no big deal to me.

I continued to do it even after I got my license back. Especially for 'Hollywood Nights', out on the town. Nobody likes a DUI! Even my most elitestreluctant friends would hop on the bus or rail with me. It was a wonderful option to have!

[joshuatree]

Re: Rail Transit

Problem with rail is that you are in the minority of people that it will actually "get you out of" your car. Most of us will not adapt to the schedule of the rail, we like the privacy of our own cars and not having to meet a bus or rail schedule. Rail is going to cost way more than they claim, have breakdown issues, etc, and most of all it is not going to be as full as our buses, not by far.

I respect one's right to privacy and one's desire to be on their own schedule. But times and attitudes are changing. Gas will go over $4 a gal this summer. Summer's not here and we already are near $4 (I'm not taking the neighbor island prices into consideration). We have some of the most beautiful, consistent weather here, perfect for public transit. The majority of drivers on the road during commutes are simply going to/from work. When rail is built, there will be a lot of people reconsidering the way they go to work if the rail is built right and the bus operation is properly coordinated.

There's nothing preventing one from using the rail only on days when they don't have chores. Even if you use rail 3 out of the 5 days for work, that's an impact on traffic. Are you really on your own schedule with a car? Don't we all have to leave the house by X time if we are to get to work on time? Perhaps the price for privacy and more flexibility in one's schedule is traffic congestion. Everything has its price.

And the final thought of the number of years of delays, traffic nightmares, noise resulting from double decking the H1 is much scarier than building rail.