Rail Transit

[sansei]

Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei and i just spoke with my sister who live's in the mainland and i learned like she mention's that only rail would work here like bart works there and that eleveated Bus highway's and toll bridge's wouldnt work here either and that's the truth of what my sister shared and she say's for the rail to be built would be about 5-6 year's and then rail would be up and running so i thought to share this with everyone.


well thank's for your time

[TuNnL]

Re: Rail Transit

turtlegirl WAS talking to me, directly, with a ridiculous claim as what MY life situation MUST be ... Since her comment was about ME, so was mine. There is nothing that suggests that WAS my life situation

If you cannot see how the casual reader would conclude you have just contradicted yourself, clearly, you are not cerebral to understand how this fact affects your reputation, and why the thoughtful crowd considers that relevant.

Haven't I been pleading for a return to topic?

No, you haven’t, but in the interest of HT members, I will take the lead in that regard...

Today’s Sunday papers have come out with two separate polls on rail transit. In the Honolulu Advertiser poll, 76% of participants say they favor putting the rail question on the ballot. In the Star-Bulletin poll, 60% of participants say they favor continuing current plans for rail. IMHO, this will provide some weight to any city council member opposed to a ballot question. That individual can now argue that supporting such an intiative would simply be pandering, since the majority of Honolulu residents favor rail anyway.

[salmoned]

If you cannot see how the casual reader would conclude you have just contradicted yourself, clearly, you are not cerebral to understand how this fact affects your reputation, and why the thoughtful crowd considers that relevant.

No, you haven’t, but in the interest of HT members, I will take the lead in that regard...

Today’s Sunday papers have come out with two separate polls on rail transit. In the Honolulu Advertiser poll, 76% of participants say they favor putting the rail question on the ballot. In the Star-Bulletin poll, 60% of participants say they favor continuing current plans for rail. IMHO, this will provide some weight to any city council member opposed to a ballot question. That individual can now argue that supporting such an intiative would simply be pandering, since the majority of Honolulu residents favor rail anyway.

I'll let you worry about the casual reader - my concern is only for interested readers, those who understand the language and what it does and doesn't mean (which apparently excludes you).

As for my pleas for a return to topic, I guess you failed to notice or understand posts #643, 656 and 658, especially since you continue to make this about me and not the topic in your post above.

I would appreciate your explanation as to how supporting a vote on rail transit is pandering, since (as you say) 76% of poll participants favor it and how you conclude that the results of the other poll obviates the need for a vote. Since a greater percentage supports a vote than supports rail transit, it seems the opposite of your conclusion is supported - that a vote IS called for, so both sides can present their cases more fully to the public.

[sansei]

Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei and when i vote,im voting for our rail transit and for our great mayor to have it built and then we wouldnt have to wait for another 16-20 years until someone bring's it up again and their would be another contingent to oppose rail and this is why im voting for rail to be put on oahu so that no one would be stuck in trafficgridlock and even though i ride a moped,i've been stuck in trafficgridlock and it's not fun and this is why this island need's rail.I've ridden the bart and it's quick to where you wish to go to and we need this here. i wont vote for the two running for mayor,only our current mayor who's running again and i'll pray for him to win so we'd have a great mayor as always.

Well thank's for your time:O)

[salmoned]

Re: Rail Transit

sansei, I hope you have the opportunity to vote on this issue.

It doesn't take much research to see how other heavy rail systems have fared in the US. Currently, there's talk about the system in the Washington DC area requesting a billion dollar bail out from congress for unrecoverable operating and maintenance costs. What a glorious future we can envision for ourselves - another welfare city, begging for bailouts (of course, we don't have the clout with congress DC enjoys).

[Vanguard]

Re: Rail Transit

sansei, I hope you have the opportunity to vote on this issue.

Currently, there's talk about the system in the Washington DC area requesting a billion dollar bail out from congress for unrecoverable operating and maintenance costs

New York is also experiencing a shortfall in funding for mass transit. I doubt there will be a bailout there. They will simply take it from commuters who for the very most part have no other choice in transportation.

[Bobinator]

Re: Rail Transit

I haven't followed this thread from the beginning, and there's all kinds of heated arguments going on here. Many are quite valid from both sides. But the question that still remains above all else, I beleive, is can we afford it? Never mind what people think it will do as far as diversity and traffic relief (if any).

I heard on talk radio the other day that our current bus system is being subsidized like $2 per person by the City. With rail, the subsidy will be around $12, not to mention that buses will still be around.

Guess they'll have to double our property taxes and start using toll roads to help pay for this.

Rail is a good idea we can't afford, unless someone can prove otherwise.

I'd consider riding a motorcycle to work if there are zipper lanes for them, so I won't get run over by a mac truck. I'm sure many others would too.

[TuNnL]

Re: Rail Transit

I would appreciate your explanation as to how supporting a vote on rail transit is pandering, since (as you say) 76% of poll participants favor it and how you conclude that the results of the other poll obviates the need for a vote.

1. pan&#183;der \ˈpan-dər\ intransitive verb Inflected Form(s): pan&#183;dered; pan&#183;der&#183;ing : to provide gratification for others’ desires <films that pander to the basest emotions>

The city council would be pandering to a popular desire to hold a vote, even though two separate, independent polls show the majority favor rail. So there is no functional purpose to hold a vote, except to pander to the 76%. I’m not saying that’s wrong. My point was it gives the council a plausible excuse to reject the vote, should they so choose.

[Random]

Re: Rail Transit

sansei, I hope you have the opportunity to vote on this issue.

It doesn't take much research to see how other heavy rail systems have fared in the US. Currently, there's talk about the system in the Washington DC area requesting a billion dollar bail out from congress for unrecoverable operating and maintenance costs. What a glorious future we can envision for ourselves - another welfare city, begging for bailouts (of course, we don't have the clout with congress DC enjoys).

I'm sure Dan Inouye will find a way, since he is Hawaii's expert on earmarks.

[salmoned]

Re: Rail Transit

TuNnl, how you manage to perceive a super-majority mandate to vote on rail transit as a base desire is well beyond my comprehension. Rather, it appears to be a higher calling for democratic principles - principles neglected (or worse, circumvented) by the mayor and a majority of the city council to date. Pandering is a pejorative word completely inappropriate when used in the context of the public's desire for government officials (public servants) to execute the will of the people and the principles of our democracy through a vote on this issue. The only hint of base desire here is in the greed of those who will profit from construction of a rail system and, perhaps, the vanity of those who may later point to the ever-devouring edifice THEY Hath Wrought on our Fair City.

Random, you're mighty optimistic on the honorable senator's longevity.

[sansei]

Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei and in response to salmoned,i respect your good opinion only with Panos who'm i dont believe in defeating rail and ann K who want's rubber on concrete doesnt make any sense,im voting for our current mayor who will put Rail on the map and i like his idea's and to vote on it,after i vote,i'll be hoping for a good turnout on putting rail on the map and steel on steel would do,not rubber on concrete or panos's way of using elevated highway's or toll is they defeat the subject of rail.They do cost way to expensive to use elevated highway's or toll bridge's is my sister who is in the mainland say's truthfully that elevated highway's are like the one's in L.A. and toll which they use,it's to costly so i hope this may help with everyone's thought's?

Well thank's for your time:O)

[sansei]

Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei and i spoke with my sister eariler this morning and i mentioned to her about the Ann K who want's Rubber on concrete and she mentioned what is that so i updated her that it would be like a modified bus that would be like a transit system and she said that's not good and then i mentioned about the other candidate who's panos p and i mentioned he want's to get rid of rail and put in Eleveated Highway's and toll bridge's and she say's not one of those would work and she say's Elevated Highway's would be like in L.A. and toll's would be like where she live's costly so she agree's with our mayor that steel on steel would work and this is what we spoke of so i thought to share this with everyone.

well thank's for your time

[TuNnL]

Re: Rail Transit

TuNnl, how you manage to perceive a super-majority mandate to vote on rail transit as a base desire is well beyond my comprehension.

This is a complete mischaracterization of what I posted. How you came to this conclusion is baffling. I can only surmise that you corrolate the term pander with base, as a result of the example given of the word’s usage. It’s just one example of thousands. Definitions are definitions and examples are examples. Try not to confuse the two.

...execute the will of the people and the principles of our democracy through a vote on this issue.

This is a Republic, not a democracy. Get it straight. [/Political Science 101]

Anyhow, you still haven’t addressed the fact that two separate, independent polls show the majority of Hawai‘i residents favor rail. Therefore, on a practical basis, there is no functional purpose for conducting a vote on the issue. My point has nothing to do with whether they should or should not conduct that vote.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Rail Transit

Seems like, as with us all, the 'majority' simply favors something better than gridlock, and Mufi's rail is the only thing proposed, so it get's the nod, no matter what the practicality, availability, or consequences may be.

All The Bus drivers I've talked to are against it. Nor do I believe what The Bus boss, Mr. Morton, is saying on the commercials they're running. I'll take a non-stop ribbon of busses any day, maybe then I'll get a seat!

I don't trust Hawaii to get anything this large and complicated correct, and certainly without a huge cost overrun, especially after they somehow managed to blow it so badly when engineering the overhead freeway (H2?) construction down by the airport in the early/mid 80s.

And, how much is the rail going to cost to ride?
Will we be allowed to bring our bikes with us?
These are two questions that either could define my ridership choice.

[sansei]

Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei andd i heard on the news that stoprail now is still trying to get all of the signature's and if they dont,they'lll take this to court and im hoping they dont win in court or we'd wait until another 16-20 year's before rail is brought up again and im hoping the court's say's no to stop rail so we can have our rail built by our great mayor.

well thank's for your time