Rail Transit

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Rail Transit

Is there such a thing as theft-free parking anywhere?

Kalihi, Waianae, Waimanalo, Hauula, Honolulu, take your pick, HPD is there for you!

Clark Himeda of Kaimuki stated an opposing case similar to what I've stated previously about the polls, and wondered in the op-eds today if "all those in favor of rail will be getting out of their cars and using rail"? He wisely suspects "these people want everyone else to use it so their drives will be faster". And that rail "will not help the traffic problems if the only ones riding rail are current bus riders".

[joshuatree]

Re: Rail Transit

Kalihi, Waianae, Waimanalo, Hauula, Honolulu, take your pick, HPD is there for you!

Clark Himeda of Kaimuki stated an opposing case similar to what I've stated previously about the polls, and wondered in the op-eds today if "all those in favor of rail will be getting out of their cars and using rail"? He wisely suspects "these people want everyone else to use it so their drives will be faster". And that rail "will not help the traffic problems if the only ones riding rail are current bus riders".

Really? You mean HPD has no jurisdiction in a park-n-ride despite it being a public facility? As for all the places you've listed, you're trying to tell me they all have theft-free parking? Wow, that's amazing.

Speculation will always be speculation, I'm sure there will be a few in that boat of hoping others to ride the system. But guess what, they are willing to pay for it, so what's wrong with that? I guess you will say since everyone will be expecting others to ride it, no one will? Then that's just mass discounting of those that actually ride the system, they will be free of traffic.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Rail Transit

Really? You mean HPD has no jurisdiction in a park-n-ride despite it being a public facility?

As for all the places you've listed, you're trying to tell me they all have theft-free parking?

I guess you will say since everyone will be expecting others to ride it, no one will? Then that's just mass discounting of those that actually ride the system, they will be free of traffic.

It's probably clear, but I don't understand that question.

Are you new to Oahu? Those are the historic hot spots for theft, tho it's everywhere. I was being sarcastic, but it would be nice to have ANY theft-free public parking.

The % of drivers that will stop driving and use rail daily is minute, and they are the targeted group that is expected to make rail a success. Nobody alive today on Oahu is ever going to be traffic-free, unless they don't venture onto the streets/highways. And bus riders will probaly see little if any bennies for using rail, so who's going to, especcially when having to stand due to lack of seating or more expensive?

[joshuatree]

Re: Rail Transit

It's probably clear, but I don't understand that question.

Are you new to Oahu? Those are the historic hot spots for theft, tho it's everywhere. I was being sarcastic, but it would be nice to have ANY theft-free public parking.

The % of drivers that will stop driving and use rail daily is minute, and they are the targeted group that is expected to make rail a success. Nobody alive today on Oahu is ever going to be traffic-free, unless they don't venture onto the streets/highways. And bus riders will probaly see little if any bennies for using rail, so who's going to, especcially when having to stand due to lack of seating or more expensive?

I'm alluding to the same thing, perhaps just different approach. But there is no such thing as theft-free parking. So to mark this as some minus for rail is a strawman argument.

Being a bus rider during different periods in my life, I can tell you there's plenty of bennies for using rail. Having the chance to use rail for urban work commuting myself, the obvious advantages are reliable, high frequency schedule & ride comfort. Riding on a bus doesn't mean one doesn't have to stand, let's make that point clear. Standing on rail is a lot more easier than standing on bus - it's a wider aisle, no bone-jarring potholes, and the only motion one has to anticipate is acceleration and deceleration unlike the bus which is unique to the bus driver's personal driving habits. More expensive? I actually think with rising fuel costs and labor costs, rail has a way better chance of keeping fares in check than bus would.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Rail Transit

But there is no such thing as theft-free parking, strawman argument.

There's plenty of bennies for using rail, reliable, high frequency schedule & ride comfort, one doesn't have to stand and is a lot more easier than standing on bus.

More expensive? I actually think with rising fuel costs and labor costs, rail has a way better chance of keeping fares in check than bus would.

Those lots are notorious hot spots, park at your own loss, then take the bus home.

You havn't rode our's yet... it's limited range and not hitting the airport/Waikiki/UH is yet another deal killer.
Standing sucks period, there will only be 22 seats for 200 people, and it takes away so many of the selling points for public transport. Plus getting a seat on a bus is possible as people depart or you can catch another bus if it's crowded, rail doesn't give those options much.

They use raising prices everywhere as another justification to raise fares whenever they think they can.

[joshuatree]

Re: Rail Transit

Those lots are notorious hot spots, park at your own loss, then take the bus home.

You havn't rode our's yet... it's limited range and not hitting the airport/Waikiki/UH is yet another deal killer.
Standing sucks period, there will only be 22 seats for 200 people, and it takes away so many of the selling points for public transport. Plus getting a seat on a bus is possible as people depart or you can catch another bus if it's crowded, rail doesn't give those options much.

They use raising prices everywhere as another justification to raise fares whenever they think they can.

Just like parking at AMC or across the street from the Blaisdell Concert Hall.

So no one gets off the train at stations between the end points of the system? If you're trying to tell me specifically for rush hour where everyone is more or less headed to a few select destination stations, then that concept also holds true with buses during rush hour.

Well let's abolish all forms of govt and live in chaos like the good old days.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Rail Transit

Just like parking at AMC or across the street from the Blaisdell Concert Hall.

So no one gets off the train at stations between the end points of the system? If you're trying to tell me specifically for rush hour where everyone is more or less headed to a few select destination stations, then that concept also holds true with buses during rush hour.

Well let's abolish all forms of govt and live in chaos like the good old days.

Sounds like you're losing steam to provide a worthy debate.

Yes, just like those and other vulnerable places.

The rail makes far less stops for opportunities. Yet, the ride might not be as long and uncomfortable. Not sure about that point, but it may be one in rail's favor.

I'm game!

[joshuatree]

Re: Rail Transit

Sounds like you're losing steam to provide a worthy debate.

Yes, just like those and other vulnerable places.

The rail makes far less stops for opportunities. Yet, the ride might not be as long and uncomfortable. Not sure about that point, but it may be one in rail's favor.

I'm game!

I haven't seen anything worthy of debate when you just keep pointing out a risk of theft that no other place is immune from. If you want to say that's losing steam on a strawman argument, you're entitled to it.

I've personally witnessed auto thefts at AMC and across the street from Blaisdell Concert Hall so the notion that somehow park n rides will be worse than any other place on the island is just fear mongering.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Rail Transit

And yet you go on with nothing to contribute. Done?

[Menehune Man]

Re: Rail Transit

Tom Berg is holding a Town Hall meeting on Rail tomorrow evening out Leeward someplace. I forgot where he told me. But check out this draft of a presentation he's preparing for that meeting.

http://www.councilmanberg.com/videos...sentation.html

Interesting stuff for sure!

[Menehune Man]

Re: Rail Transit

Here's a link to news about last night's Town Hall meeting concerning 'RAIL', out leeward side.
http://www.kitv.com/news/28254456/detail.html

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Rail Transit

Here's a link to news about last night's Town Hall meeting concerning 'RAIL', out leeward side.

Thanx, Man. I hope they have another in/nearer town soon, and with good notice. As can be read below, the 'for' side could have had their heavy hitters there, but would prefer a "fair setting", where I guess they call all the shots.

On May 2, Berg sent invitations to speak at Wednesday's event to the mayor, along with the city's transportation director and deputy director who oversees rail transit.
The mayor is traveling in China on business and was unable to attend.
City transit officials said they don't accept offers to speak at events that they don't feel offer a "fair setting," and Wednesday's meeting qualified as one of those where they said "No thanks."

What's Mayor 'done deal' doing in China, are the Chinese developing state-of-the-art pot hole repair?

[TuNnL]

Re: Rail Transit

EVERYBODY favors some kind of workable solution, and most that vote in favor just want it to happen ... even at 50/50, for the City/rail pros to charge ahead when obviously there is faltering to outright angry public non-support is irresponsible at best.

And that is why I believe the city council is trying to maintain some kind of accountability for the Rail Transit project. Mayor Peter Carlisle and the Honolulu Area Rapid Transit (HART) board have insisted that HART (stacked with union bosses and development insiders) have absolute power over their budget to spend as they please.

The city council — led by fresh incoming council chair Ernie Martin and vice chair Ikaika Anderson — has sought to slow down the process by insisting that the council have checks and balances over the HART budget. The mayor and his cronies, have ofcourse, thrown a hissy-fit over the mere idea of ceding any say to the people, and have threatened to sue. Somehow, I knew my boy Ikaika wouldn’t sit by while the mayor steamrolled this project through. Ikaika is, btw, one of the only council members who supported Tom Berg’s attempt to take back the 10% skim of the rail transit tax that the state has been STEALING from city taxpayers.

Transit board budget drives strain
The mayor has said he will sue over the spending plan OK’d by the City Council

By Gene Park
POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, Jun 21, 2011

A little more than a week before the Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation takes office, a battle looms as Mayor Peter Carlisle is expected to veto the agency’s budget passed by the City Council ...

... Council Budget Chairman Ernie Martin, poised to become Council chairman, said the city managing director told him of the mayor’s intent to veto soon.

“If in fact the mayor does veto those bills, we would look at scheduling a special session to override his veto,” said Martin, who expressed confidence in an override due to the bills’ 8-1 vote when they initially passed. It takes a two-thirds’ vote of the nine-member Council to override a veto.

Carlisle has indicated that he is prepared to sue the Council over the matter. At issue is whether a City Charter amendment, passed in last year’s election, intended to give the agency full authority over its finances.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Rail Transit

The typical cost overruns will help sink whatever noble plans some have. We will regret this mistake ever starting. Too bad, we need a GREAT 'rail', but you know my views.

[TuNnL]

Re: Rail Transit

I hope they have another in/nearer town soon, and with good notice.

Here's notice to you, Ron: you'll get that in/nearer town opportunity soon, and with much more at stake then just a "note the concerns and forget about it" community touchy-feely. Looks like the City Council is planning a showdown with Mayor Carlisle to over-ride his vetoes on rail transit's purse strings.


Mayor Carlisle vetoes four City Council bills

Updated: Jun 21, 2011 11:52 PM HST

City council members plan to hold a special meeting to override the vetoes. Councilman Ernie Martin, who is poised to become the new council chair, says he’s disappointed in the Mayor’s veto but does believe the votes are there to override.

“When we override his vetoes and we will override his veto, I hope that he's open to further consideration and working with the council to avoid litigation,” said Ernie Martin. “This is beyond rail, this comes down to whether council has the right to review and approve the Hart budget.”