Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Possibly and I hope that you are right for your sake because I really don't think HA or AQ has any plan B's. If somehow go! manages to stick around, I see HA and AQ scrambling. Don't forget that should Mesa break apart, there's always someone that may step in to buy them out and carry on. In fact, that's pretty much HA's and AQ's story. If Yucaipa didn't buy a stake, I really don't think AQ be around today.

If you are quite done trying to change the subject, how about this press release to get back on track? http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070921/laf078.html?.v=7

Murnane and Garfinkle now both being set up to take the fall for Ornstein or maybe not? What twists will the story take tomorrow?

So anyway, you miss the point entirely joshua. The point being these morons did not come to Hawaii because "it made sense" or they expected to make money with CRJ's. Get a clue. THE ONE AND ONLY REASON Mesa came to Hawaii was a. to teach Aloha a lesson and b. let other airlines know that there are consequences for turning down Mesa's offers.

So fast forward two years from back then and "O how the mighty have fallen have fallen". The once supreme and powerfully mighty Mesa Airlines has been run into the ground by their sociopathic CEO's unquenchable ego.

Ornstein has delusions that Aloha offended him in some way by going with Yucaipa's offer instead of his. Truth of the matter is Ornsteins offer was TOO LOW and Burkle made a better bid than he did.

Enter "the yet to be new Hawaiian Airline" later called go!

It was all a scam designed to scare off Yucaipa so Mesa could swoop in and score Aloha out of the BK courtroom in an asset sale. READ: no pesky union contracts / but all the airplanes and all the gates. it would have been perfect! Or what did Murnane call it in that deleted e-mail? "a home run".

We knew from DAY ONE what JO's game was and that's why Yucaipa stuck it out. JO was trying to play Hawaii for a island full of suckers. After Mesa leaves (by force it appears) other airlines are free to enter in. Aloha and Hawaiian truly do welcome competition. REAL competiton. Bring back James Delano and maybe his idea for FlyHi can finally take flight.

I am right. You know it. The proof is already out there, or do I have to post 3 dozen links and a timeline to help you connect the dots?

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

I just booked another California trip for spring break. Guess what? I DIDN'T book on Aloha! Why pay for Aloha when all you get is OMNI INTERNATIONAL?

BAIT AND SWITCH!

AQ used Omni for a few days last summer. Aloha's pilots union made sure it will never happen again. Management is buying new airplanes anyway finally so things are headed in the right direction.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

If you are quite done trying to change the subject, how about this press release to get back on track? http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070921/laf078.html?.v=7

Murnane and Garfinkle now both being set up to take the fall for Ornstein or maybe not? What twists will the story take tomorrow?

So anyway, you miss the point entirely joshua. The point being these morons did not come to Hawaii because "it made sense" or they expected to make money with CRJ's. Get a clue. THE ONE AND ONLY REASON Mesa came to Hawaii was a. to teach Aloha a lesson and b. let other airlines know that there are consequences for turning down Mesa's offers.

So fast forward two years from back then and "O how the mighty have fallen have fallen". The once supreme and powerfully mighty Mesa Airlines has been run into the ground by their sociopathic CEO's unquenchable ego.

Ornstein has delusions that Aloha offended him in some way by going with Yucaipa's offer instead of his. Truth of the matter is Ornsteins offer was TOO LOW and Burkle made a better bid than he did.

Enter "the yet to be new Hawaiian Airline" later called go!

It was all a scam designed to scare off Yucaipa so Mesa could swoop in and score Aloha out of the BK courtroom in an asset sale. READ: no pesky union contracts / but all the airplanes and all the gates. it would have been perfect! Or what did Murnane call it in that deleted e-mail? "a home run".

We knew from DAY ONE what JO's game was and that's why Yucaipa stuck it out. JO was trying to play Hawaii for a island full of suckers. After Mesa leaves (by force it appears) other airlines are free to enter in. Aloha and Hawaiian truly do welcome competition. REAL competiton. Bring back James Delano and maybe his idea for FlyHi can finally take flight.

I am right. You know it. The proof is already out there, or do I have to post 3 dozen links and a timeline to help you connect the dots?

How have I changed the topic when this thread is about Hawaii's Interisland Air War? This is just more of you being afraid to discuss the weaknesses of your own employer. Typical.....

Coming into this market made sense. Whenever a market has a lethargic business milking it, it's makes sense for a competitor to step in and try to win over the market. The execution was utterly stupid on Mesa's behalf. And I would actually call that a blessing for you. However, I think the constant defense of "Mesa wanted to give Aloha the last push" is really overrated. What exactly do you think when businesses go into competition, hold hands together and sing kumbaya? The guy's stupid for blurting it out but honestly, it's just common sense.

AQ used Omni for a few days last summer. Aloha's pilots union made sure it will never happen again. Management is buying new airplanes anyway finally so things are headed in the right direction.

Okay, since you seem privy to details, when? Cuz I recall AQ looked at the E-190s last summer. In the airline industry, that's a long time ago considering nothing ever came out of it. Will it really be new airplanes? Grabbing slightly newer planes from other airlines isn't new. I believed AQ leased a 737-800 for about 5 months. Is that to cover the shortfall with dropping Omni?

[oggboy]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Can anyone confirm this? Aloha to start Trans-Pacific service Sna to Koa then to Lih and on to San. I didn`t see anything newspaper but saw the post on airline aviation...

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

How have I changed the topic when this thread is about Hawaii's Interisland Air War? This is just more of you being afraid to discuss the weaknesses of your own employer. Typical.....

The weaknesses of Aloha not only attracted Mesa in the first place but they have been the very backbone of Mesa's business plan. Mesa never brings anything to the local or national economy themselves. Mesa is a predator and they fill their bellies by preying on the weak. Aloha's perceived weaknesses had EVERYTING to do with attracting Mesa. Too bad for Mesa Aloha is still here. Good for Hawaii.

Coming into this market made sense. Whenever a market has a lethargic business milking it, it's makes sense for a competitor to step in and try to win over the market.

And I quote Mr. Garfinkle who is also being hung out to dry by Mesa, "This project makes no sense if Aloha stays in the picture" And again, there is a big difference between PREDATOR and COMPETITOR. This issue in semantics will be the backbone of the upcoming legal proceedings. No sense for us to debate it here. The judge will rule soon. The evidence is overwhelming.

The execution was utterly stupid on Mesa's behalf. And I would actually call that a blessing for you. However, I think the constant defense of "Mesa wanted to give Aloha the last push" is really overrated.

Thats why you are an internet message board "expert" and not a Federal Judge

What exactly do you think when businesses go into competition, hold hands together and sing kumbaya? The guy's stupid for blurting it out but honestly, it's just common sense.

Common sense is not that common at Mesa. These guys really do piss off every community they have ever served! I challenge you to find ONE SINGLE community that is happy with their service from Mesa. If you could even find ONE, I could find TEN that are no less than IRATE with Mesa for every one you might find.

Okay, since you seem privy to details, when? Cuz I recall AQ looked at the E-190s last summer. In the airline industry, that's a long time ago considering nothing ever came out of it. Will it really be new airplanes? Grabbing slightly newer planes from other airlines isn't new. I believed AQ leased a 737-800 for about 5 months. Is that to cover the shortfall with dropping Omni?

Another cheap shot joshua? Is that all you got?

Why don't you try me and go find me one single community that can sing praise about Mesa. I dare you. You wont because you can't. In Mesa own hometown they couldn't wait to dump their service in exchange for Pacific Wings single engine Caravans! That says it all.

People WHO KNOW MESA THE BEST would rather puke in airplanes that go twice as slow and fly twice as low with half the engines instead of fly on Mesa.

Here you go.. My favorite quote. From the Mayor of Carlsbad, NM when Mesa Airlines lost all of South Eastern New Mexico to Pacific Wings

Carlsbad Mayor Pro Tem Ned Elkins... told Mesa officials they had lost the confidence of southeastern New Mexico.

''I told them I thought Snoopy in a World War I biplane could come in here and get this thing,'' he said. ''Southeast New Mexico wants change"

Your turn Joshua. I promise at least ten more "against" if you can find me just one in favor. Bottom line is Mesa is a parasite that exists by bleeding the living. They need to leave Hawaii and find someplace else to feed.

[aloha-anon]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Can anyone confirm this? Aloha to start Trans-Pacific service Sna to Koa then to Lih and on to San. I didn`t see anything newspaper but saw the post on airline aviation...

its true, it will be "round robin" type service. The flights will go;

AQ485:SNA-KOA-LIH-SAN (Sun Mon Wed Fri)
AQ485 SNA-LIH-KOA-SAN (Tue Thu Sat)
AQ486 SAN-LIH-KOA-SNA (Sun Mon Wed Fri)
AQ486 SAN-KOA-LIH-SNA (Tue Thu Sat)

Theres also going to be the addition of AQ488 which will depart Honolulu daily at 7:33 a.m. and arrive in Orange County at 3 p.m. The return, AQ489, will depart from Orange County at 3:55 p.m., arriving in Honolulu at 8 p.m.

This will be with AQ's 737NG aircraft. NOT OMNI!

[oggboy]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

its true, it will be "round robin" type service. The flights will go;

AQ485:SNA-KOA-LIH-SAN (Sun Mon Wed Fri)
AQ485 SNA-LIH-KOA-SAN (Tue Thu Sat)
AQ486 SAN-LIH-KOA-SNA (Sun Mon Wed Fri)
AQ486 SAN-KOA-LIH-SNA (Tue Thu Sat)

Theres also going to be the addition of AQ488 which will depart Honolulu daily at 7:33 a.m. and arrive in Orange County at 3 p.m. The return, AQ489, will depart from Orange County at 3:55 p.m., arriving in Honolulu at 8 p.m.

This will be with AQ's 737NG aircraft. NOT OMNI!

Mahalo for the reply, good to hear some good news about Aloha for a change.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Hawaiian's opening arguments on Tuesday should be "how many times do you have to smell $h!t before you finally decide its a turd?"

I cant believe anybody in Hawaii is still patronizing this company. They are something else. Truly amazing!

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Mahalo for the reply, good to hear some good news about Aloha for a change.

yes! congrats aloha! Cant wait to see the new airplanes! Throw go! down the well!

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

The weaknesses of Aloha not only attracted Mesa in the first place but they have been the very backbone of Mesa's business plan. Mesa never brings anything to the local or national economy themselves. Mesa is a predator and they fill their bellies by preying on the weak. Aloha's perceived weaknesses had EVERYTING to do with attracting Mesa. Too bad for Mesa Aloha is still here. Good for Hawaii.

Are you really so sure it was simply Aloha's weakness that attracted Mesa? Nevermind that Hawaiian themselves were in bankruptcy? Also, what is surprising about weakness attracting a competitor? Isn't that how the market economy works? See a need, fill it.

As for Mesa not bringing anything to an economy, I be a little more careful with that blanket statement. You might not like it but Mesa and similar regional airlines do indeed provide a role to the legacy carriers. It helps them provide the remote and smaller coverage at a time when they are struggling themselves. So if anything, why aren't you attacking your very ally, UA, for they employ Mesa in many places?

And I quote Mr. Garfinkle who is also being hung out to dry by Mesa, "This project makes no sense if Aloha stays in the picture" And again, there is a big difference between PREDATOR and COMPETITOR. This issue in semantics will be the backbone of the upcoming legal proceedings. No sense for us to debate it here. The judge will rule soon. The evidence is overwhelming.

So define predator and competitor to me? Like I said before, Mesa was stupid in blurting out these comments and leaving a trace. But it is common sense, you want to win over a market, you try to take out the weakest player in that market. There's nothing new in that concept.

Thats why you are an internet message board "expert" and not a Federal Judge

Touche my friend, yet you try to come off as the Judge yourself in your posts.

Common sense is not that common at Mesa. These guys really do piss off every community they have ever served! I challenge you to find ONE SINGLE community that is happy with their service from Mesa. If you could even find ONE, I could find TEN that are no less than IRATE with Mesa for every one you might find.

Where have I said Mesa was a boyscout? Are you resorting to this again everytime I ask about Aloha's weaknesses? Besides, what about just sticking with go!? Or does that diminish your big arguments because you need to use Mesa's boo boos elsewhere to back them up?

Another cheap shot joshua? Is that all you got?

Why don't you try me and go find me one single community that can sing praise about Mesa. I dare you. You wont because you can't. In Mesa own hometown they couldn't wait to dump their service in exchange for Pacific Wings single engine Caravans! That says it all.

People WHO KNOW MESA THE BEST would rather puke in airplanes that go twice as slow and fly twice as low with half the engines instead of fly on Mesa.

Here you go.. My favorite quote. From the Mayor of Carlsbad, NM when Mesa Airlines lost all of South Eastern New Mexico to Pacific Wings



Your turn Joshua. I promise at least ten more "against" if you can find me just one in favor. Bottom line is Mesa is a parasite that exists by bleeding the living. They need to leave Hawaii and find someplace else to feed.

What cheap shot? I asked a legitimate question about Aloha's plan for new planes. Yet again, you defer the question. It's really not an issue of me shooting off cheap shots but rather you simply provide cheap answers by constantly deferring the questions on Aloha. Instead of waiting for "my turn", how about simply answering the question, what new planes? I really would like to know what AQ thinks is the appropriate equipment for interisland flights.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Quick stats on Boeing 737-200 series of airliners:



Notice the last Boeing 737-200 rolled off the assembly line in 1988. How many take off an landing cycles do these planes have in inter-island service before Aloha is forced to retire them out?

So is Aloha looking to upgrade their inter-island fleet to a newer model airplane? There were photos of an Embraer jet that Aloha looked over last year, but nothing has come of that.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

So Murnane has been put on "administrative leave" for 90 days while allegations against him are being investigated. If the allegations prove to be true, then maybe he'll sing like the proverbial canary and drag a few others down with him in order to get some leniency in punishment, a la Enron. Or will he make the ultimate sacrifice and fall on the sword all by himself? I'm sure the alleged actions were not perpetrated in a vacuum.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Quick stats on Boeing 737-200 series of airliners:



Notice the last Boeing 737-200 rolled off the assembly line in 1988. How many take off an landing cycles do these planes have in inter-island service before Aloha is forced to retire them out?

So is Aloha looking to upgrade their inter-island fleet to a newer model airplane? There were photos of an Embraer jet that Aloha looked over last year, but nothing has come of that.

Maybe United Airlines has excess equipment that isn't being used right now by Ted (its low cost subsidiary) that can be loaned to AQ under their operating agreement. Ted has a fleet of 57 A320s, whose average age is 7.8 years. Its parent company also has a bunch of other short haul jets ---specifically the 737s--that could be used on regional routes but which are not in service right now, according to that inventory list above. The average age is 17.8 years for all models of the 737 they own. The average age of the AQ fleet is 24.1 years.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Maybe United Airlines has excess equipment that isn't being used right now by Ted (its low cost subsidiary) that can be loaned to AQ under their operating agreement. Ted has a fleet of 57 A320s, whose average age is 7.8 years. Its parent company also has a bunch of other short haul jets---specifically the 737s--that could be used on regional routes but which are not in service right now, according to that inventory list above. The average age is 17.8 years for all models of the 737 they own. The average age of the AQ fleet is 24.1 years.

Here's a problem. UA's 737 fleet consists only of 737-300s and 737-500s. Neither is supposedly ideal for the high cycles of interisland because they use high bypass turbofans instead of low bypass. At least that's the reason given when AQ tried the 737-400s. If they get the A320s and pilot training, that means increased maintenance costs as AQ needs to learn to maintain the A320s, not unless UA still handles the maintenance. This is why I want to know what Anon has to say about new planes.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Maybe United Airlines has excess equipment that isn't being used right now by Ted (its low cost subsidiary) that can be loaned to AQ under their operating agreement. Ted has a fleet of 57 A320s, whose average age is 7.8 years. Its parent company also has a bunch of other short haul jets ---specifically the 737s--that could be used on regional routes but which are not in service right now, according to that inventory list above. The average age is 17.8 years for all models of the 737 they own. The average age of the AQ fleet is 24.1 years.

Miulang

I booked a flight on American for my Mom last week on an MD80. I heard somewhere the average age of American's MD80 fleet exceeds Aloha's inter island fleet.