Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

We got it Mel!


We got it!

If you got it then stop calling my name out.

It's all about the almighty dollar and where it goes and how much I and other price sensitive consumers can save. I will remind you again and again until you stop referring to me. Got it now????

Low prices. Hawaii loves them. That is why people flock to WalMart. That is why the Costco store and gas station is always busy. That is why people loved airline coupons. That is why they love the competition.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

If you got it then stop calling my name out.

It's all about the almighty dollar and where it goes and how much I and other price sensitive consumers can save. I will remind you again and again until you stop referring to me. Got it now????

Low prices. Hawaii loves them. That is why people flock to WalMart. That is why the Costco store and gas station is always busy. That is why people loved airline coupons. That is why they love the competition.

And you still fly HAWAIIAN.


Sure Mel. I wont ever mention again how you worship the almighty nickel as soon as you stop calling what Mesa has done "competition".

Sound fair Mel?

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

And you still fly HAWAIIAN.

Sure Mel. I wont ever mention again how you worship the almighty nickel as soon as you stop calling what Mesa has done "competition".

Sound fair Mel?

Then we will continue to beat a dead horse here. People do not care who the competition is. All they want is low fares, especially if it is less than what they were in 2006 prior to your favorite airline's arrival.

But Star if you want to pay higher fares, nobody is stopping you. Go ahead and book a $79 or higher flight when $39 or less tickets are available.



GO... good for competition because the consumers are not part of their legal problems. Go offered low fares, the other 2 airlines were dumb enough to match, they all lose, and the CONSUMERS WIN for now. The cheap air fares are for now, and we'll worry about the higher fares later and adjust accordingly. Simple as that.

The nickels, pennys, dimes, quarters, dollars saved can be applied to something else instead of an airline ticket. Consumers in Hawaii learn how to S T R E T C H their hard earned dollars because the cost of living is SO HIGH in our state that discount carriers, discount stores, and discount services continue to be very popular, just like anywhere else.

The airlines made the offer for cheap fares. We just came along and bought in. DOESN'T MATTER WHAT AIRLINE it is whether it be Hawaiian, Aloha, Go or Island Air. If the airline offers the low fare, we buy the tickets. We pay our money and they get us there and that's it. We are happy with the low fares.

As long as the discount fares last people have definitely been enjoying the ride!

GO! Thanks for the low fares again.

[jkpescador]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Our Hawaiian Miles credit card actually dictates which carrier we use.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Sure Mel. I wont ever mention again how you worship the almighty nickel as soon as you stop calling what Mesa has done "competition".

Strictly speaking, it is competition. Just not the same kind of competition that Mid Pac and Mahalo offered.

I think it's pretty much established that there's only room for 2 major interisland carriers in this market, and Mesa wanted to be one of those 2 by driving out Aloha.

So in a way, I think like Mel. It's great that go's presence has dropped prices for consumers. The only problem is that it's not going to be a permanent situation. When one of those companies finally goes under, prices will go sky high again (pardon the pun!) It is inevitable.

But there's nothing you, me and Joe Consumer can do about it. All we can do is live it up today and enjoy the sweet fruits of this price war while it lasts.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

It's great that go's presence has dropped prices for consumers. The only problem is that it's not going to be a permanent situation. When one of those companies finally goes under, prices will go sky high again (pardon the pun!) It is inevitable.

But there's nothing you, me and Joe Consumer can do about it. All we can do is live it up today and enjoy the sweet fruits of this price war while it lasts.

The opponents to Go and low fares in Hawaii have told us that time and time again. So like many other people I have taken advantage of the low fares whether it be on Hawaiian, Aloha or Go and reaped the reward of flying now.

We'll all worry about the higher fares when that happens and adjust accordingly.

For now the consumers are the clear winners.

All the other problems are for the airlines, the courts, the lawyers and the accountants.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Speaking of winners...how have Hawaiian and Aloha been doing financially? I'll just assume here that their bottom lines MUST be in the red.

[808shooter]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

personally, I'd prefer one of the two interisle carriers be a privately held company. Public corps are beholden to shareholders and doing only what's good to maximize shareholder value (and get the CEO their multimillion dollar bonus')

I'd prefer a stinkin rich owner who is already making millions a year just by owning the company and just prefering to make a decent profit off local operations. No need to gouge us.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Isn't Aloha Airlines a privately held firm?

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Strictly speaking, it is competition. Just not the same kind of competition that Mid Pac and Mahalo offered.

Go is not "competing". Even Mel who vehemently defends Mesa REFUSES to fly on go! Why is that?

Competition (strictly speaking) is when two companies vie for the consumers loyalty by providing a 1. better product, 2. better service and 3. better price to the consumer.

Mesa/go! has not succeeded in any of the above so they have not been COMPETITIVE by the strict definition of the term.

Mesa knows they are not competitive but they DONT CARE.

They are not in Hawaii to be competitive. They are here to make Aloha and Hawaiian BLEED. Nothing more. This is not competition, this is tortious interference and with the proof offered in several court exhibits it is also going to be proven in April by Aloha & Yucaipa's legal team that it was FRAUD.

With a fraud conviction Aloha will end up owning Mesa. Now thats a scary thought!

Call it any number of other things, just dont call it competition.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

WHY ITS NOT COMPETITION (from Airlines of Hawaii)

By cutting interisland fares by 50%, and sometimes by 50% again, the new carrier has increased overall travel by a mere 3% to 8%. If the airlines actually paid customers to ride their planes we might see another 8% increase in travel, but in this market deep discounting clearly does not lead to profits. So, what’s going on here?

In most any U.S. business, a competitor cannot routinely dump its products on the market at below-cost prices. In the last century, oil-industry robber-barons used below-cost pricing to eliminate the competition, then they jacked up prices afterwards. Such behaviors inspired anti-trust laws which prevent anti-competitive mayhem. Not so in the U.S. airline industry, though. No U.S. airline has ever been found guilty of predatory pricing and received penalties for such anti-competitive behavior since airline deregulation was enacted. It’s a tough case to prove. Now we have a carrier which is pushing the envelope, seeing just how tolerant the judicial system will be of its below-cost pricing. If go!’s parent company Mesa Air Group (Nasdaq: MESA) loses its bet, it might have to pay triple damages and that is enough to plunder the parent company’s treasury. If Mesa wins in court, it earns the right to continue losing millions each month in an effort to decimate a long-time Hawaii company. Either way, it’s a nasty fight.

The travesty here is that the consumer has only a minor impact on who wins this contest. Losses are so great on interisland flying that the loser is the airline which runs out of money or blinks first. Customer preference and cost of providing the service take a back seat to cash in the bank. The dynamics of the free-enterprise system give way to financial wheeling and dealing.


So, please don’t call this conflict “free enterprise at work”. Call it testing judicial limits, call it survival of the wealthiest, or call it any of a number of things, but don’t confuse this conflict with an economic system that has produced better and lower-cost goods. This conflict is quite a different animal.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Go is not "competing". Even Mel who vehemently defends Mesa REFUSES to fly on go! Why is that?

Whenever there is a sale and it falls within the time I want to fly, I'll open 3 to 4 browser windows (thanks to tabbed browsing) and see who's schedule and prices best fits my needs. My natural bias is toward flying with Hawaiian Airlines because I just like the Boeing 717; it is the best jet flying interisland. Hawaiian has been matching Go's price, so I buy their ticket. Certainly I look at Go's schedule and they are my #2 on the list because their planes are certainly newer than the clunkers flown by Aloha.

I've been flying Hawaiian most of the time between the islands. When they have prices that match the competition ($39 or less or whatever), I'll fly with them.

But if they did not have the low price, certainly I would fly Go. But so far Hawaiian has matched Go on most of the prices and most of the times I've flown. It is simple as that.

I may not be the biggest consumer of Go's product, but I certainly continue to thank Go for bringing prices down and making flying AFFORDABLE for consumers. That as I have mentioned many times is what counts the most.

Flying on Hawaiian should make all you anti-Go types happy for me.

Competition (strictly speaking) is when two companies vie for the consumers loyalty by providing a 1. better product, 2. better service and 3. better price to the consumer.

Well the definition from Dictionary.com states:

Competition

1. the act of competing; rivalry for supremacy, a prize, etc.: The competition between the two teams was bitter.
2. a contest for some prize, honor, or advantage: Both girls entered the competition.
3. the rivalry offered by a competitor: The small merchant gets powerful competition from the chain stores.
4. a competitor or competitors: What is your competition offering?

The definition above does not mention better product, service or even price. All it says is the "rivalry" offered by a competitor.

So in this Mesa vs. the rest, definitely a rivalry going on. No question about that. Unfair, yes, but so what. Again this is not the consumers' problem. The airlines want to duke it out and make us offers we can't refuse, why not?

They are not in Hawaii to be competitive. They are here to make Aloha and Hawaiian BLEED. ....... (snipped)

How come both Hawaiian and Aloha were bleeding BEFORE Mesa even entered the market? Both airlines in Chapter 11. Was it the high fares? Bad management? Lousy schedules?

And Star just for you here are all the nickels I saved:



Guess what? If you save enough of them they add up to dollars! Saving a nickel is not a crime. I am proud that I can save money for use on something else later.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

Well the definition from Dictionary.com states:

look up "hipocrite" while your at it.

Noun1.hypocrite - a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives

Like somebody who thanks go! post after dead horse post and yet keeps flying on HAWAIIAN.

Take your nickels and go! stuff yourself in a cramped CRJ piloted by two punk kids and a yo yo diggy o flight attendant.

Then come back and tell me how much you love go!

[mel]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

As I have mentioned I have no loyalty to Go, or even to Hawaiian for that matter. It is all a matter of price. I may be a hyprocrite to you... so what. I am saving my nickels and that is all that matters... as I have said many times through this dead horse beating exercise.



Many nickels saved turns into real dollars.

[infinitypro]

Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

We too check all flights and compare prices and schedules. We continue to fly Hawaiian because:

1. The price and schedule meet our needs.

2. Our frequent flyer miles are accumulated with HA. (BTW they also honor our miles flown on Island Air).

We have yet to buy a ticket for $1, $5, or $19 on any airlines, but certainly have not flown for over $100 ow. I believe the most we've paid was $70 ow.

The reason we haven't had to pay the $100+ ow to travel is because go! has entered the market. I think myself, and Mel and others have made it clear that we're not condoning the business practices that Mesa has been found guilty of, but we also cannot deny ourselves a savings.

If we're going to live our lives of purchasing only from honest business owners, then we'd have to give up gasoline too, and that's just not going to happen.

We are not hypocritical for flying Hawaiian, but acknowledging that the only reason it's been made more affordable is because of go!'s entry into the market. It's the truth.

Star of Gladness (does anyone else hum, "Oh oh, hokuleaaa,..." when you read the name? I do! ) I know you're not angry that we've all saved money are you?