Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

But is that really a fair assessment given the unknown status of the ferry? If I wasn't sure if the boat will be running, I wouldn't be booking thus creating an artificial low demand.



See, I remember the ferry touting both transporting passengers and enabling smaller business to quickly move their goods. I think it is this combo that will create the niche market for the ferry.

No, even before all the pilikia, I tried to book a RT between Kahului and Honolulu for Sept. 6, and I STILL could get a reservation. O'Halloran himself, last Friday, when they announced they would have those $5 fares, was quoted as saying while he didn't have exact numbers, he believed the number of confirmed reservations at that time "was about 100".

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Do you have some reference for this? I am hearing just the opposite from folks anxious to bring their ag goods to Oahu on the ferry. Perhaps my understanding is flawed, but I always thought that the transport of goods (particularly ag products) was one of the principal streams of income the HSF planned.

Here's a quote from some Maui farmers:

Many farmers, however, have concerns about using the Superferry. For example, when it makes its first interisland trip with paying passengers and vehicles on Aug. 28, it leaves Maui at 11 a.m. and doesn’t get into Oahu until three hours later, at around 2 p.m.

"For sales that day, it probably would be too late for farmers," Watanabe said.

Also, a farmer would need to adhere to the Superferry’s requirement that a driver be on hand for every vehicle boarding the vessel, thus adding to the cost of transporting such goods.

Watanabe said that given the ferry’s schedule, a farmer using the ferry would also have to pay for overnight arrangements for a driver on Oahu or Kauai.

And the requirements above are based on DSH and PUC regs, not necessarily what HSF would have had as requirements but they are obligated to adhere to any fed or state regulations in order to do business.

And if you refer to the Superferry tariff (Appendix B, page 33) they have a totally different pricing scheme for larger trucks than they do for passenger cars and trucks.

Miulang

[infinitypro]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

...Why aren't the protest people sitting in front of the barges?...

I was wondering the same thing too, have the barges conducted any of these environmental studies as is being required of HSF? Perhaps it's necessary, however why has it become the HSF's responsibility?

Would the protestors support Oahu if we rallied against the barge deploying from Honolulu prohibiting the delivery of their goods?

And, say for instance HSF does successfully bring over 200 vehicles per trip, wouldn't this concern the rental car businesses too? Are they protesting as well?

It's really an irritation, and making a mockery of the progression or lack thereof of our entire State.

I welcome other options to travel.

Is there really a fear of Oahu on the neighbor islands? Are we really considered superior? I don't feel that way.

I wouldn't want anyone in their respective positions to overlook any environmental, traffic or other issues, but we need to imua. For reals.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

First of all, the cancellation of today's run to Kauai according to this link from the Advertiser:

Gov. Linda Lingle has asked Superferry officials to cancel a planned 3 p.m. trip to Kaua'i today and officials agreed, Lingle said.
(...)
"I'm concerned about the safety of people," Lingle told reporters after speaking this afternoon at a tourism conference at the Hawaii Convention Center. "We have reason to believe they (protesters) would be in the water again trying to stop a huge vessel on a surfboard, and that's a recipe for a serious problem. "So we're asking Superferry, don't go in, let's make certain that the public safety is protected."
Superferry officials have scheduled a news conference for 3 p.m.

And to think there were buffons here who kept claiming Lingle was in the SuperFerry's pocket.

the majority of people who got on the boat in Honolulu also returned to Honolulu on the same boat. When the ferry starts regular service, this will not happen very often.

Says who?

If anything the only times when the ferry will be at full capacity is on the weekend or a 3-day holiday weekend.

Says who?

And there aren't enough of those days to make up for the days when Alakai won't be carrying the loads HSF stated it requires to break even.

Gosh, the SuperFerry folks are sure lucky to have you to tell them how to run their business! You keep coming up with things they've never ever considered. Like, oh, WiFi, for instance, and now you know better than they how to break even. I'm sure their gratitude to you is underwhelming.

Superferry has always been touted as being a major benefit for individual passengers, and it wasn't HSF's intent to go after the farmers or any other commercial use (except maybe the DoD) as a primary revenue source.

Uh, no, you're wrong again, as others have already told you repeatedly.

I think the primary reason the DOT and PUC fast tracked the application is because they believed it was to primarily serve people, not cargo.

At least, that's what you "think". You guess. You presume.
As always.

They're not really all that worried about making money, though.

Yeah, they're just in business to entertain whackos.

Do you have some reference for this? I am hearing just the opposite from folks anxious to bring their ag goods to Oahu on the ferry. Perhaps my understanding is flawed, but I always thought that the transport of goods (particularly ag products) was one of the principal streams of income the HSF planned.

No, she has no references. She's just guessing and pontificating.

I remember the ferry touting both transporting passengers and enabling smaller business to quickly move their goods.

Yes, it seems that those of us here in Hawai`i remember that. I guess the news never got to her in Seattle.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Kam, I told you, in my little economic exercise above, it had absolutely nothing to do with traffic, or pollution. It's all about whether or not HSF can sustain the volumes they themselves have publicly stated they need in order to be viable.

The NET increase is close to ZERO. The nominal increase is a tiny percentage of the current populations and number of vehicles on both Maui and Kauai.

They're not really all that worried about making money, though. They have a federal loan guarantee in Title XI MARAD dollars to cover their okoles if they can't make a profit. That loan guarantee is worth almost $140 MILLION.Miulang

Again the "class envy anger" that I think is the real root of the protestors energy comes through.

Here we have a Seattlite, 2500 miles away, always the expert on all things Hawaii, who lives in maybe the one state that collects the most in federal subsidies for ferry services and has for decades. Funny how you again resort to the "See, look at those rich corporate pigs sucking money from the government for their little toy boat" attitude. Same thing with the "protestors".

Most of the other states recieve subsidies for Amtrak, Ferries, Mass transit, billion dollar bridges, Alaska gets money for small airplane travel I believe, etc etc. Why is federal support something to be ashamed of,,,, IF the purpose is to support something that helps society but may not be economically viable on its own?

My first reaction to the Superferry when I learned of it was "Its about time" and mostly for safety reasons. What if a chemical accident happens on an outer island and a hazmat team is needed ASAP. Or what about a Ladder Truck, or 10 Ambulances, or National Guard for some emergency, or as a way to just evacuate people at time when maybe Airplanes can't fly - remember 9-11 Muslim Terrorist Attacks????

I think the Superferry will have to be subsidized to survive, especially with the attitudes of many of the people who live here. Just watch the news tonight and you will see them.

[dick]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I welcome other options to travel.

So do I. And I'm looking forward to taking my car to Maui. I'd rather give my money to the ferry than to rent-a-car places.

Anyway, last time I checked, we live in a state. And I'd like to use my car for intra-state travel. The ferry gives me that option without having to deal the the Young Brothers red tape rigamarole. You know what kind of hassle it is to ship a car like a Miata or a Mini Cooper with them? It involves pallets, tie-down straps and a lot of headaches. I've done it several times. When I rode the ferry Sunday I saw both types of cars on board, hassle-free.

When I lived on the mainland, I routinely drove to other cities and towns within the state. And there were no people standing at the city limits protesting my entry. I even got brazen sometimes and drove to another state!

This is some strange and bizarre stuff we're witnessing.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I was wondering the same thing too, have the barges conducted any of these environmental studies as is being required of HSF? Perhaps it's necessary, however why has it become the HSF's responsibility?

Would the protestors support Oahu if we rallied against the barge deploying from Honolulu prohibiting the delivery of their goods?

And, say for instance HSF does successfully bring over 200 vehicles per trip, wouldn't this concern the rental car businesses too? Are they protesting as well?

It's really an irritation, and making a mockery of the progression or lack thereof of our entire State.

I welcome other options to travel.

Is there really a fear of Oahu on the neighbor islands? Are we really considered superior? I don't feel that way.

I wouldn't want anyone in their respective positions to overlook any environmental, traffic or other issues, but we need to imua. For reals.

The bill 702 which was rejected by the State House would have put the burden for paying for an EIS on the State, and not HSF.

The reason why Matson, NCL, etc. were not originally required to conduct EIS's is because they began service before the laws about those things changed in Hawai'i. And unless the Legislature wants to change the laws to require retrospective EIS for those harbor users, then they will be grandfathered in and EIS will be conducted at the time when improvements are requested. And the reason why PASHA, which is a relative newcomer in Hawai'i, was exempted from the rules may be because it shares facilities with another harbor user, whereas HSF has dedicated barges.

As it is, the State IS already conducting as EIS for Kahului Harbor in conjunction with its Year 2030 Master Plan for Kahului Commercial Harbor, and in that, all harbor users will be studied. HSF agreed to be part of this EIS.

Miulang

[helen]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

This is some strange and bizarre stuff we're witnessing.

Makes me kind of wonder if instead of the ferry, they had built bridges between the islands, what kind of reactions the people of each island would have when residents of other islands came by to visit.

[infinitypro]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

So do I. And I'm looking forward to taking my car to Maui. I'd rather give my money to the ferry than to rent-a-car places.

Anyway, last time I checked, we live in a state. And I'd like to use my car for intra-state travel. The ferry gives me that option without having to deal the the Young Brothers red tape rigamarole. You know what kind of hassle it is to ship a car like a Miata or a Mini Cooper with them? It involves pallets, tie-down straps and a lot of headaches. I've done it several times. When I rode the ferry Sunday I saw both types of cars on board, hassle-free.

When I lived on the mainland, I routinely drove to other cities and towns within the state. And there were no people standing at the city limits protesting my entry. I even got brazen sometimes and drove to another state!

This is some strange and bizarre stuff we're witnessing.

Each time I moved I had to ship my car. From Long Beach to HNL it got here within a week, but took nearly two weeks to take "Big Girl" out of the container. Then my employer transfered me to Maui, took 'nother week to get here, transfered again to the Big Island, add on another week...and now I'm back in Honolulu which took only a few days from Kawaihae.

My employer is transfering me back to Maui in a few months, I hope this is all cleared up before then. It's not about moneyfor me, it's a matter of convenience and options.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Here's a quote from some Maui farmers

Wait just one frickin' minute, Miulang. You seem to have conveniently left out this other part of that very same article that you yourself provided a link to. That same article's REAL point was this:

"Meanwhile, assuming the Superferry begins operations, Maui farmers are eyeing it as an option to transport their goods to other islands.
"That’s part of the reason the Maui County Farm Bureau and its 200 members – farmers, ranchers and their supporters – supported the arrival of the first of two Superferrys, the Alakai, to the islands.
"I think it’s great," said Maui Farm Bureau President Warren Watanabe, a day after attending the Superferry’s open house. Watanabe also served on a citizens’ advisory council to the Superferry.
"It was never the intention of the ferry to be a crop carrier," Watanabe pointed out Sunday. But he said his organization is holding discussions with the Hawaii Superferry about the possibility of using the ferry to carry Maui produce and flora.
"Like anything new, we’d have to go through the process and iron out the kinks. You never know until you try it," Watanabe said.
"At the moment, Maui farmers transport most of their items between islands on the Young Brothers barges, in Matson containers or on airplanes.
"The Superferry would be another option," Watanabe said.
(...)
"One advantage of the ferry over the current barge schedule at Kahului Harbor is that it sails out daily. The barges take on Maui produce only three times a week, Watanabe said.
"Another option is that two farmers might consolidate their goods into one refrigerated truck and share the costs of using the Superferry to get their goods out of Maui and into Oahu, and possibly even Kauai."

Once AGAIN, Miulang, you have quoted a teensy tiny portion of an article in your feeble attempt to prop up your blatant anti-SuperFerry basis, and you willfully and intentionally IGNORED and/or tried to hide the main thrust of that same article.
You flagrantly ignored the published fact that "the Maui County Farm Bureau and its 200 members – farmers, ranchers and their supporters – supported the arrival of the first of two Superferrys, the Alakai, to the islands." And you've also tried to suppress the fact that the President of the Maui County Farm Bureau served on a citizens’ advisory council to the Superferry!!!!!!
In short, you have once again attempted to obfuscate the issues and you have attempted -- UNsuccessfully -- to mislead the readers of HawaiiThreads.
Shame on you. SHAME ON YOU!


If anyone still had questions (per that silly Apologies thread) about why I critique Miulang's fabrications so frequently, those questions have just been answered.

[infinitypro]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

The bill 702 which was rejected by the State House would have put the burden for paying for an EIS on the State, and not HSF.

The reason why Matson, NCL, etc. were not originally required to conduct EIS's is because they began service before the laws about those things changed in Hawai'i. And unless the Legislature wants to change the laws to require retrospective EIS for those harbor users, then they will be grandfathered in and EIS will be conducted at the time when improvements are requested.

As it is, the State IS already conducting as EIS for Kahului Harbor in conjunction with its Year 2030 Master Plan for Kahului Commercial Harbor, and in that, all harbor users will be studied. HSF agreed to be part of this EIS.

Miulang

Miulang

My question was more of a rhetorical one, and was directed towards the protestors who have yet to address the 'barge' docking weekly into their harbors. But perhaps you ducked?

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

...I think the Superferry will have to be subsidized to survive, especially with the attitudes of many of the people who live here. Just watch the news tonight and you will see them.

There you go...a private, for profit company getting public funding...what's wrong with that picture?

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Miulang

My question was more of a rhetorical one, and was directed towards the protestors who have yet to address the 'barge' docking weekly into their harbors. But perhaps you ducked?

No, but some paddlers from the Hawaiian Canoe Club (da best in da state!) got a little freaked out on Sunday morning when they were trying to put into shore right before the ferry docked at Kahului...

Enomoto said he and several other paddlers, many of them members of the state champion Hawaiian Canoe Club, have been coming together on Sunday mornings to paddle for fun.

They launched their canoes around 8 a.m. Sunday, about a half-hour later than usual, toward Kanaha, and were returning to the shore at their clubhouse in Kahului Harbor shortly before 9:30 a.m. when they saw the 350-foot Alakai at a distance.

At first, Enomoto and steersman Frank Zajac, who was leading a separate canoe in front of Enomoto’s, thought they could get into the harbor before the ferry. They quickly found out that they were wrong, so they stopped paddling and stayed still in the water.

They said they were aware of the Coast Guard order of a 100-yard security zone around the ferry whenever it is in port or navigating around the harbor, which will happen between 9:30 and 11 a.m. daily.

The paddlers saw the 350-foot double-hulled vessel coming in but did not see any personnel on the deck.

“It came in at full speed. It didn’t slow down,” Zajac said.

Enomoto said the ferry was operating at a speed “way faster” than most boats traveling in the Kahului Harbor. “That’s a fast boat, I tell you,” he said.

As the ferry approached the mouth of the harbor, a 5-foot wave came up behind, forcing Enomoto and Zajac to get their paddlers moving out of the way. Enomoto said the experienced paddlers knew right away to start paddling, but the novice paddlers hesitated and appeared to be in shock as they watched the wave come in.

Zajac said he believed the ferry should have been more cautious.

“They should slow down and not make such a big wave,” Zajac said. “What are we supposed to do, stop what we’re doing so they can make a big buck?”

Hawaiian Canoe Club President Dave Ward said last week that he and his members had been told the Superferry would not have an impact on them.

Miulang

[tutusue]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[...]See, I remember the ferry touting both transporting passengers and enabling smaller business to quickly move their goods. I think it is this combo that will create the niche market for the ferry.

HSF will be extremely helpful to smaller film productions in our state. Instead of needing to pack and ship gear via barges or planes, fly drivers outer island, then rent cargo vans to pick up the gear at the airport plus a daily rental for the length of the shoot, prod. companies will be able to load their own vans and send them along with the drivers on the ferry. No expensive airline cargo charges. No cargo van rentals. No loading and unloading gear. This will definitely streamline the process and help to keep budgets down.

Granted, this will be a small percentage of HSF's customers but every little bit helps, both for HSF and production.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Wait just one frickin' minute, Miulang. You seem to have conveniently left out this other part of that very same article that you yourself provided a link to. That same article's REAL point was this:



Once AGAIN, Miulang, you have quoted a teensy tiny portion of an article in your feeble attempt to prop up your blatant anti-SuperFerry basis, and you willfully and intentionally IGNORED and/or tried to hide the main thrust of that same article.
You flagrantly ignored the published fact that "the Maui County Farm Bureau and its 200 members – farmers, ranchers and their supporters – supported the arrival of the first of two Superferrys, the Alakai, to the islands." And you've also tried to suppress the fact that the President of the Maui County Farm Bureau served on a citizens’ advisory council to the Superferry!!!!!!
In short, you have once again attempted to obfuscate the issues and you have attempted -- UNsuccessfully -- to mislead the readers of HawaiiThreads.
Shame on you. SHAME ON YOU!


If anyone still had questions (per that silly Apologies thread) about why I critique Miulang's fabrications so frequently, those questions have just been answered.

Lika, the farmer's coop is looking at HSF as an alternative, but given the current scheduling and the fact that they have to accompany their cargo to their destination (and these aren't even really HSF rules but federal and state rules), they have to think about it some more. Where do you get that I was misquoting anybody?

Miulang