Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[infinitypro]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

And one bigass earthquake, hurricane, or tsunami will have us all bonding again. Kumbaya.

I wondered where you were WindwardOahuRN! As always, you're hillarious. And this quote is so true, but why does it take something horrible...ahh humans!

I had something to say about this SUPERFAIRY.

[MatildaRose]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

It is this Master Plan that helps determine which projects get funded between now and then, Matilda. The current Master Plan for Kahului Harbor Year 2025 (last revised in 2002 or 2003, I think) did not have HSF in there as part of the planning because it wasn't a viable project at the time. That's why the State DOT decided to move ahead and do a revised Year 2030 Master Plan for both Kahului and the Big Island's two harbors (Kawaihae and Hilo). The State itself acknowledged that the Year 2025 Plan should have been redone 10 years ago. And HSF is a willing participant in this EIS because it is being consulted and will have permanent berthing as opposed to the barges, tents and Porta-Potties that exist today as HSF ferry terminals.

Miulang

I understand what a Master Plan is. As you stated, the current plan was revised in 2002 or 2003, you think, and the 2025 plan should have been redone 10 years ago, and that's my point: The 2030 Master Plan will be redone over and over and over again until it's 2030 already. Lots can, and will, happen before then.

Now, I'm going to search for Oahu's Master Plan for 2007 or 2008 and see what it says.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I understand what a Master Plan is. As you stated, the current plan was revised in 2002 or 2003, you think, and the 2025 plan should have been redone 10 years ago, and that's my point: The 2030 Master Plan will be redone over and over and over again until it's 2030 already. Lots can, and will, happen before then.

Now, I'm going to search for Oahu's Master Plan for 2007 or 2008 and see what it says.

No need to...here it is.

The State is supposed to use these Master Plans to determine where they can raise money for needed projects. And this process can take years. If something deviates from the current Master Plan (in the case of Honolulu, the Year 2020 Master Plan) then certain processes get tripped, for instance an EA/EIS.

Miulang

[zztype]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Sure, Oahu could do it. But the Feds and the State wouldn't let you get away with it because that constitutes an illegal embargo. If we could get rid of the Jones Act, and if Kahului Harbor could be expanded, no prob with not getting anything shipped from Honolulu.

Miulang

So does that mean that Kauai has enacted an illegal embargo on shipping from Honolulu?

[MatildaRose]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

No need to...here it is.

The State is supposed to use these Master Plans to determine where they can raise money for needed projects. And this process can take years. If something deviates from the current Master Plan (in the case of Honolulu, the Year 2020 Master Plan) then certain processes get tripped, for instance an EA/EIS.

Miulang

The State raise money? Isn't that called taxation?

[Star of Gladness]

Now if HSF wanted to keep interest up, they wouldn't charge as much as they will be when they start service. Thanks to go!, people are now conditioned to expecting never to pay full price. If the airfare war hadn't started, I think HSF would be in a far better position because then its posted fares would sound like a reasonable option. But their timing was a little off and they may end up paying the price at the interisland carriers' expense.

So your saying its all Mesa's fault? If true, its amazing how much instability to Hawaiis economy was caused by one mans greed and ego.

Don't forget the Lion Coffee guy never got his airline off the ground either and blame was placed on Mesa. Without Mesa Hawaii would have a much better chance of the HSF being accepted and a honest third airline to choose from, no protests, no dontflygo.com and no Hui-R.

This is just stupid.

A bunch of idiots put themselves in harm's way, in defiance of federal law and all common sense, and the solution is to tell the "harm" to stop?

What if these idiots decided to take their surfboards and lie down in the middle of the H-3 freeway? Would the police close the freeway indefinitely in the hope that the idiots would tire and go away?

NO! They would send in an army of police officers and haul them off to...Kaneohe State Hospital for mental examination! THEN they'd be thrown in jail for their stupid actions.

I think the governor should call out KPD, the Coast Guard, and, if those folks can't handle it, the National Guard to keep the area clear of riffraff.

If the KPD and the Coast Guard can't keep the harbor clear, then the National Guard certainly can cordon off the area to prevent large numbers of people from approaching or entering the harbor. That should make the Coasties' job a little easier.

Coast Guard finally had enough of the escalating drama and would not guarantee anybodys safety. Local Police was frustrated as these were family members they had been called out to arrest.

Calling out the National Guard and you still have family member vs family member. Kauai is a small island.

In the 19th Century a big Hawaiian guy named Kamehameha managed to unify the Islands but he had to do it by force.

Kauaiians are quick to remind everybody their island was NEVER conquered.

Nobody's mad at Oahu. Thats as silly as the rest of their supposed causes.

They are mad. Period.

Mad that they are living paycheck to paycheck.
Mad that they need to remind themselves that they live in Paradise but never have time to go to the beach.
Mad at the highest gas prices, highest food prices, highest taxes in the nation.
Mad that the High tech, hollywood, corporate CEO millionaires live the high life right in front of them. See Kahului and Kona Airport private jets etc.
Mad that Hawaii's 200 year one party political system has never worked.
Mad that the price of the house TimKona said would go up for 16 years is going down.
Mad that the best jobs go according to who you know not what you know.
Mad that everyone spends all their energy trying to be more "local" then the next guy.

Thats the kinds of things they are mad at. Not Oahu.

good post.

[Composite 2992]

Kauaiians are quick to remind everybody their island was NEVER conquered.

The truth is that Kauai wasn't conquered in battle. Kaumualii knew he would be defeated and gave up Kauai in advance of Kamehameha's arrival.

Kauai was conquered. But without spilling any blood.

Don't forget the Lion Coffee guy never got his airline off the ground either and blame was placed on Mesa.

The headline should have read: Airline plan thwarted. Lion Coffee Grounded.

:-)

[zztype]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Coast Guard finally had enough of the escalating drama and would not guarantee anybodys safety. Local Police was frustrated as these were family members they had been called out to arrest.

Calling out the National Guard and you still have family member vs family member. Kauai is a small island.

So? Coasties and KPD are professionals who have a job to do. If they won't do their jobs, then the National Guard can help. If they won't do their jobs, somebody else can do it for them.

Wot you think? You the only guys live Kauai? What about the KAUAI RESIDENT who was on the boat that got turned back? He was bringing his car back to Kauai, but got turned away, sent back to Oahu. Wot? You no like him back home, either?

Is he the only Kauai resident ever to travel to Oahu? Once you guys travel to Oahu, what? No can come back? Too bad the wife and kids, no? Too bad, no can visit mama no more. Papa goin' make before can see the son again... auwē.

Like I said before, THIS IS SO STUPID.

All you protesters, go home. You not protecting my āina. You not doing me any favors. Go get a job, help the economy.

You want to blockade something? Go blockade Pearl Harbor with your stupid surfboard, your stupid plastic kayak. See how the U.S. Navy handles your delusions. Big fun!

[Karen]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

No protester shall decide for me how I will travel, and whether I'll use the ferry or not. I can't help but expect the courts to decide in favor of the ferry. what a shame this all is when a recent report made the news and I doubt it was the first one, that Hawaii is one of the top, if not, wait it did say our state is the number one least "business friendly" state.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Kauaiians are quick to remind everybody their island was NEVER conquered.

"Their" island? Are we talking Catalina here?

:::No disrespect meant to actual Kauaians:::

[i-hungry]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Kauaiians are quick to remind everybody their island was NEVER conquered.

Yeah cause there was these bunch of surfers protesting the attacking invaders.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

So it looks as if the legacy of Kamehameha's vision of unity is unravelling as residents of each island proclaim their desire to keep one island from overwhelming another.

That said I wonder how the protesters would have felt if the Super Ferry were to make trips only between Maui and Kauai and left out Oahu. Would each island still have displayed their resistance towards another knowing that Oahu wasn't involved?

I think the real issue is how Oahu's dominant population will overshadow the neighbor islands making each neighbor island port of call an extension of Oahu.

Neighbor islands would fear the loss of identity as Oahu bridges the ocean and connects it's demographic strength across all islands. Flying or boating in isn't the issue here, it's that now you can literally drive to another island. That notion gives rise to the fact that there is no physical separation that keeps each island unique and a joy to visit. A drive to Hana to someone from Oahu has become like a drive to the North Shore.

From that perspective and the fact that I've now made the Big Island my home (expatriate from Honolulu) I can see why the neighbor islands feel that the SF has become an intrusion to a way of life.

The automobile itself has become the point of contention not so much it's environmental impact on each island. The car represents an extension of our own ego's. Traditionally when we depart an island to go to another, we leave that extended ego in the parking lot and embark on an adventure.

Now we can take it with us.

My wife is working back on Oahu while the family is here on the Big Island. When she needed a reliable car to drive from Mililani to Downtown Honolulu everyday, I sent back our Astrovan for her to use. This van originated in Honolulu when our family lived in Kaimuki. She tells me driving the van back on Oahu made her feel less anxious about being isolated from her family because the familiar smell of the car and the memories.

Think about it for a while...if the Super Ferry never carried automobiles the whole issue of resistance would never have occured. The environmental impact is just an excuse because we all know YB has been shipping cars for decades. YB itself reminds us that they are the "lifeline" of the islands. There's no environmental impact from invasive species from their shipment of goods.

When NCL docks in any harbor their impact can only be greater than the SF but there's no environmental impact there either...at least none that warrants protest.

It's the car...or more precisely, that extended ego that is driving on another island now. When I first came to the Big Island to live permantly, my cars bore Honolulu license plates and Kamehameha School Kapalama Campus parking decals. These were badges of honor so to speak of where I came from. It was me saying, "look at me I'm from Honolulu and you're not".

Eventually as I integrated as Big Islander, I removed those badges and when other newly transplanted residents from Honolulu would tell me, "Well in Honolulu it's like this..." I would tell them, "That's right...in Honolulu, but you're in Hilo now so leave your Honolulu attitude back on Oahu and enjoy your visit to the Big Island where we do things differently".

It's the car...or more bluntly...it's Oahu cars that the neighbor islanders are anxious about, because I can almost guarantee that if the first SF trip originated from Kauai and ended up in Maui, there wouldn't have been as much of a fuss. It's all about Oahu...cars that is.

[GeckoGeek]

If these protesting clowns were for real, they would go after the true source of polution and traffic. Why not suggest a 500 vehicle registration fee for 1 vehicle and a 2000 fee for the second registered to the same person???

Clue me in. How does someone owning two cars instead of one increase the amount of pollution and traffic? They can only drive them one at a time!

In fact owning multiple may HELP the situation. Why? What if they own a economy car and a big SUV. The econo car is to travel to work. The SUV is for the weekend fun. If forced to choose, they'd end up driving the SUV to work.

If all drivers can only own one vehicle, then that vehicle has to do it all. That's why you see so many big cars stuck in the workday rush hour with only one person in them. It's because a tiny little two seater won't work for everything they need to do.

A bunch of idiots put themselves in harm's way, in defiance of federal law and all common sense, and the solution is to tell the "harm" to stop?

It's quite disturbing to see that the "powers that be" are completely unable to enforce the law when the time and place are known and the lawlessness is out in the open. Isn't that one of the core reasons for government to exist - for common protection?

I sure as heck hope that Lingle has a plan when she asked HSF to suspend operations. A plan that needed some time to work.

They are mad. Period.

Out of all the reasons speculated on, I think the underlying one is anti-change. The people on the neighbor islands are there because they like what they have. The like the status quo. They see HSF brining "Oahu" to their islands. If they liked Oahu, they've have moved to Oahu. But they haven't.

Yes, the airlines and barges bring more. But this is something new. It could change the island. It's to be feared.

At least that's what I think is going on in their minds.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

It could change the island. It's to be feared.

Those who fear change should leave it in the cup next to the cash register...

[dick]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

craigwatanabe -

So, what you were saying is that "the car" is the root of all evil. And bringing one's own car to a neighbor island is (ahem) bad, because with it one brings an "ego."

You brought stickers plastered to windshields, you wax moody and retrospective of the warmth of the Young Brothers barges (did you skip my post on what a farce it is to ship a car with them? Or the the whole coqui frog thing?), and you "integrated as a Big Islander." Sounds like you may have had an ego problem... but don't extrapolate that on others. Please.

Have you heard? I'm from Maui.

Face it, this is a state. I pay taxes for roadways on other islands, and so help me I'm going to use them. With my own car.

Sorry, but I don't use my tags as "badges of honor." I use them as required by law (except that time a few years back when I got busted for not having a front plate on my car -- but that's another story -- hey gotta have full disclosure, right?).

I grew up on Maui fercrissakes. You're telling me I can't go back there with my own car because I live on Oahu? And thus by extension, have an "ego?"

You're saying that someone from Oahu can't use his/her own car to go to Hana, but it's okay if they use a rental? Because that's what hundreds of people do every day. They traipse out to Hana, creating traffic, filling black sand beaches, blah blah blah. They traipse up to Haleakala, riding those bike tours, trampling silverswords (yeah, I've seen it with my own eyes), running over nene. The list goes on. This has been happening DAILY since long before I was born, and nobody gave a rip.

Then a ferry comes along with a few hundred folks from Oahu who bring their own cars and suddenly it's armageddon.

Perhaps there's been a run on Guri-Guri or manju? God forbid those Honolulu folks find out about Komoda Bakery and drive up to Makawao with their own cars!

This whole thing is absolutely wacky.