Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Oh boy.....this is getting to be monotonous. Does how much land, equal or not, matter under Chapter 343 which states any use of state land or funds?????????

At the end of the day, who does Pier 2 belong to? YB or the state? If a landlord wants to stop leasing property to a tenant, what recourse does a tenant have if the landlord did the process by the book? You're displaying a squatter's mentality.

There was an EA done on the A&B purchase. The DOT is who decides whether or not an EA/EIS is completed. The Hawaii Supreme Court ruled unanimously that the DOT misinterpreted the exemption and that Judge Cardoza's original ruling was faulty. I'm not displaying a squatter's mentality. What happened, happened. It's well documented. Check page 10 "Acquisition of Land and Improvements for the Expansion of Kahului Commercial Harbor". If they could conduct an EA for this ahead of time, why couldn't the DOT have done the same for HSF?

Miulang

[helen]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I am wondering about this, if the Maui case is about the lack of filing of an EIS for the improvements that needed to be done for the Kahului Harbor to support the SuperFerry, then why are people on Kauai protesting about the lack of an EIS when it does not affect them?

As it stands right now there are no outstanding legal issues with the SuperFerry operating in Hawaiian waters? Just the harbor improvements?

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

As it stands right now there are no outstanding legal issues with the SuperFerry operating in Hawaiian waters? Just the harbor improvements?

Legally, I believe you are correct. The battle really is more about the timing of the EIS and the start of operations of HSF, not whether HSF should be able to conduct business or not, because nearly everyone does want HSF to be an alternative mode of travel for the residents of Hawai'i. The reason I believe it's all about the timing of that EIS is because the deal that DOT made with HSF was that DOT would approve service to start if HSF did an EIS concurrent to the start of that service. So the issue of EA/EIS no EA/EIS isn't really the case. HSF is really not the bad guys in this case; it's the DOT and its interpretation of State laws that created the problem in the first place. (I got this information by listening to the archived proceedings from the Hawai'i State Supreme Court).

The Hawai'i Supreme Court overturned Judge Cardoza's initial ruling that the 3 enviro groups on Maui had no standing to sue because they weren't directly impacted by HSF's operations, and instead decided that the 3 enviro groups were being impacted by the HSF operations because the law as written now states that ANY individual or corporation can file a suit if they believe they are being hurt.

However, the requested EA (which may or may not generate a full blown EIS) could examine things like impact on the whales, the effect of the ferry spreading invasive species, etc. The Court was also concerned that the DOT misinterpreted the definition of the exemption it used to declare that HSF didn't need an EA/EIS performed (the infamous Chapter 343) because adding a little barge and a tent and Porta-potties when examined as an individual enhancement does seem to meet the requirements for an exemption. But when those modifications are put into the context of the whole working harbor and taking away 25% of YB's footprint at the Harbor, then that exemption to the exemption applies which says that an EA will be generated if a normally insignificant project has significant impact on a fragile environment.

Here are some examples of draft EISs and final EISs. You can look at them to see the differences in the detail of what is being studied.

Meanwhile, as a result of the first lawsuit, Judge August's rulings of last week only impacted the mitigations in the harbor itself, and does not apply whatsoever to what happens to the whales or invasive species or anything like that. That's why he issued the TRO...because the DOT didn't finish the striping of the lanes (and I think there were some other things he wanted done too related to traffic control) that he wanted done before the ferry started operations.

I'm sure the whale lovers and anti-Stryker people and the anti-invasive species folks will kill me for saying this, but as far as I'm concerned, all they're doing is creating noise and distractions to the MAIN reason why the EA/EIS is necessary, and that is the preservation of the ability of Neighbor Island folks' ability to get the critical supplies they need that come via barge.

All harbor users (including HSF) need to have enough space to conduct business in a safe, efficient manner. What exists for facilities at Kahului Harbor today is not adequate. I don't consider a barge and a big tent and Porta-Potties adequate ferry terminal facilities. They need to have a solid structure with real bathrooms and a real waiting area for the passengers. They need to have adequate parking for people who don't want to take their cars on board the ferry. And that's what the Year 2030 Master Plan is supposed to be studying...how to create enough space for everybody.

Miulang

[MatildaRose]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Today's online daily edition of Pacific Business News asks the question:
"Should the Hawaii Superferry be allowed to continue sailing during its environmental assessment?"

Yes: 87%
No: 12%
Don't Know: 2%

The above includes my "yes" vote.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

good one!

I am not a Hawaiian history major so correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Kaumuali'i was allowed to continue ruling Kaua'i? When have the "conquered" been allowed to live and continue ruling?

Interesting question. I'm no Hawaiian history expert, either. But it appears Kauai was handed over to Kamehameha in a formal ceremony, and Kamehameha put Kaumuali‘i in a subordinate role. Kaumuali‘i was no longer an autonomous ruler and the island of Kauai no longer belonged to him.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Sarcasm right?

I mean seriously is your vehicle an extension of your ego? Is the value of your vehicle the focus of your self-worth?

I'm in trouble. I drive a Hyundai.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

What time is today's hearing scheduled to take place? If it's going on right now --- then nobody's got nothin' to report yet. Sure makes things itchy, though...

ETA: Hearing was scheduled for 1:30, so it just got underway.

court hearing minutes attached.

hall is atty for sierra club, et al. lisa munger and lisa bail are superferry attys. william wynhoff is with atty general, repping DOT.

[pzarquon]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Hearing was scheduled for 1:30, so it just got underway.

Per the Advertiser: Hearing on Hawaii Superferry's Maui trips continued: "Maui Circuit Judge Joseph Cardoza has continued until next week a hearing to decide whether Superferry service to the Valley Isle can resume. The hearing will resume Thursday. While a decision will not be issued today, Cardoza today denied a request by the Hawaii Superferry and the state Department of Transportation to dissolve a temporary restraining order prohibiting ferry service to Maui that had been in effect since Monday."

[na alii]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

looks like the TRO still remains in place.

http://khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=7003125

[waioli kai]

Lehman et. al's fascUSt ferry invasion , Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 5

---zzhype I think the governor should call out KPD, the Coast Guard, and, if those folks can't handle it, the National Guard to keep the area clear of riffraff." ---

[helen;162213] ' I don't know if you are aware of how Nawiliwili harbor is setup but there is a lot of places that are spread out where people can enter the water. It will take a lot of people to guard this area to prevent people from entering the water. And even then if they have small boats or canoes they can enter the water from nearby Hanamaulu Bay and come over to Nawiliwili to block the ferry. ...
.... Rosa Parks was not stopping the buses from running. She just wanted to ' sit on a seat while it was traveling. ...We might be a single state but there are differences between the islands, some of them can be taken in stride, others may not.'

The first statement is superfascUSterrianistic: as in superfascUSterry; $uperfascUSterrian; superfascUSterrianism.

The first quoted statement continued as fascistic gruel with:

"If the KPD and the Coast Guard can't keep the harbor clear, then the National Guard certainly can cordon off the area to prevent large numbers of people from approaching or entering the harbor. That should make the Coasties' job a little easier. [zztype]"

A "Coastie" ? Like one of those cardboard things the waitress puts under a sweating alcoholic drink? But as a rhetorical result of the sheer persistence an idiot's musings, only a disrespectful US. Navy enlisted man, would refer to U.S. Guard personnel with such a word.

===== == == =

Quote, Helen: 'I am beginning to believe that it's not the commerce traffic that frightens people but rather the concept of on a whim anyone with a car can hop into their car, drive down to the harbor, board the ferry, get to another island and just drive around on the other island without telling anyone. '

Now you're on to something Helen. It only makes sense that Kauaians would not want people coming to their island from anywhere without first making sure the arrivees had to place to spend the night besides in their cars, parks, parking lots, rights-of-way, or wherevers that is cheap,,,as in free!

With a new police chief the KPD should quickly decide which side of the fascUSt$ fence their new chief whom one would think wants to begin a mutually rewarding, sustainable relationship with Kauaians. The new chief should be more than just a little disappointed with the superfascUSt$ situation for which Lingle is imminently responsible as a result of her ushering onto Hawai`i waters Lehman et. al's fascUSt ferry invasion.

Per the Advertiser: Hearing on Hawaii Superferry's Maui trips continued: "Maui Circuit Judge Joseph Cardoza has continued until next week a hearing to decide whether Superferry service to the Valley Isle can resume. The hearing will resume Thursday. While a decision will not be issued today, Cardoza today denied a request by the Hawaii Superferry and the state Department of Transportation to dissolve a temporary restraining order prohibiting ferry service to Maui that had been in effect since Monday."

Could Kauai justice be that far behind?

---
-

--Miulang;162409 "So the issue of EA/EIS no EA/EIS isn't really the case. HSF is really not the bad guys in this case; it's the DOT and its interpretation of State laws that created the problem in the first place. (I got this information by listening to the archived proceedings from the Hawai'i State Supreme Court).---

The State of Hawaii, the Hawaii Supreme Court do not have okina in them. Are you advocating that such names should have okina? Have you checked to see what Hawai`ians think about attempts toward sanctifying State names with retroactive political correctness (even when done with good haole intentions)?

Just what were Lingle and her state backer$ and politicos doing before those superfascUSterrian ferry dreams were foisted on the State Supreme Court? You blame the DOT when Lingle is really the first in the state government who should be held to account.

" I'm sure the whale lovers and anti-Stryker people and the anti-invasive species folks will kill me for saying this,"

Kill you? Wouldn't it just be sufficient to claim that you don't know much about what you are talking/writing? You seem to have fully diconnected from local, community concerns and stresses....businesses, big and small, are one thing; community, cultural concerns (maxed-out infrastructure, community parks, reefs, relatively rural lifestyle, residential tax base) are another.

".... but as far as I'm concerned, all they're doing is creating noise and distractions to the MAIN reason why the EA/EIS is necessary, and that is the preservation of the ability of Neighbor Island folks' ability to get the critical supplies they need that come via barge. "

With your "the MAIN reason why", you got on a limb in your own tree.

"And that's what the Year 2030 Master Plan is supposed to be studying...how to create enough space for everybody. "

Who is "everybody" and when is "enough space" ever really enough for corporatUSt$ offensives?

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Hawaii isnt that bad. Kauai'ians have a right to free speech and free association granted them by the US Constitution. The Coast Guard should be applauded for refusing to round up US Citizens. Lingle has screwed the pooch royally but even she knew a bad moon rising and petitioned the HSF to not try and run the blockade once again.

No blood was shed. Let us be thankful for that.

This is Hawaii, we have our issues, we will work them out. Look how messed up Europe is. http://www.planestupid.com/ According to their website, they want to see "airport expansion plans scrapped, a tax on aviation fuel and an end to short haul flights".

So these protesters siezed a barge with an A380 wing and now the full force of the EU is coming down upon them. Talk about a bad Kabuki play.


Heres a picture of one protester glued himself to a door at a UK airport.

[GeckoGeek]

Seeing the footage shown again on the news last night of all those protesters pounding on private cars and screaming threats and throwing rocks at the occupants -- and their children! -- has once again totally pished me off.

They better cut that out or one day they'll do that to the wrong person. If a crowed surrounded me and started getting violent, I'd have no problems using the gas petal to get out of there.

Also, isn't it odd they they would go after the users of the ferry? Doesn't that suggest that the root of this really is local (Kauai) against local (Oahu), or at least resident against resident?

No one is saying no to HSF.

I don't belive that for a second. The EIS is just a tool to say "see, it creates problems - ban it".

Kauai'ians have a right to free speech and free association granted them by the US Constitution.

That they do, but what they are going goes well beyond free speech into criminal activity. (Sure, you'll call it civil disobedience - but the fact is that they can and have been arrested.)

Let's not confuse the situation in Kauai with the one in Maui. Kauai is the one that enacted the "anti-big box" law. That should tell you something about their mindset.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

A "Coastie" ? Like one of those cardboard things the waitress puts under a sweating alcoholic drink? But as a rhetorical result of the sheer persistence an idiot's musings, only a disrespectful US. Navy enlisted man, would refer to U.S. Guard personnel with such a word.

Having worked with the Coast Guard extensively, I can tell you that they refer to themselves as "Coasties."
The rest of your post is not only difficult to read stylistically but also pretty nonsensical.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

The rest of your post is not only difficult to read stylistically but also pretty nonsensical.

Maybe he had a few too many sweaty alcoholic drinks...

[Fritz]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Nice try, but she has flagrantly ignored those same requests from many many other HT members.
Hey, in one recent case while pretending yet again to be a resident of Mau`i she recommended a restaurant to a newbie here... but that restaurant had been closed for years. Very similar to her willful and negligent dispensation of totally false legal advice. Sadly, she is also the single most prolific poster here, by miles. (Miulang has 8,304 posts, by far the most on HT. The second-place poster has over 1,000 less than that, and the owner of this board has well over 2,000 LESS than Miulang!)
One can only hope and pray that one day soon the powers-that-be will see fit to put a halt (either temporarily or permanently) to her highly disruptive and intentionally misleading posts.

I'm a noobie, but I am quickly learning to gloss over when someone argues in circles. Did you ever consider not responding?